WARNING on UPGRADE MF4 to MF5

[maddrummer3301]

>>>There was a clear difference in the quality of the two videos
>>>produced, with the MF5 being jerky (similar to a wrong field
>>>order problem) as well as grainier, while the MF4 was almost
>>>perfect.

Hi,
I'll encode some avi's today and see if my version is doing the same.

As you know this shouldn't be happening at all.
The jerkiness could be the burning process with errors on the dvd.
But, the video being grainy should not be.

As a troubleshooting question can you please post if you had the program use the "Project Properties" to encode or did you "Export" the video first to the harddisk and then re-import the video into the timeline to create chapters, menus & burn.

If you went with a dv.avi file on the timeline all the way to the burning module then MF5 used the "Project Settings" to encode the video.
Exporting & importing the new mpeg2 file as you know would not require encoding of the material.
I always export the video out from dv.avi to mpeg2 first. Or, edited/joined/cut/split mpeg2 files are exported first to one mpeg2 file.
Then I import the mpeg2 file. This way MF4/5 is always working with dvd compliant files going into the burning module.

MD

[JoReneA]

In both cases I used the avi file all the way to the final project burning and used project properties to do the encoding. (I first transferred the video from my camera using firewire directly to avi2 on my harddisk.) The two DVD disks were exactly the same so I don't think the problem has anything to do with the quality of the DVD disk, plus it was repeatable using different disks. I have always gotten such good results with the process I use, that I don't do the two step process, which takes a lot more time. When I was having problems with an earlier version of MF, I did use the video editing software a few times to first encode to mpg, and it usually created a good final product, but it became unneccesary with versions 3 and 4. (I think version 2 had a problem with reversed field order.) Directly encoding to mpg from the camera uses too much processing power, especially with longer clips, so I don't do that, as it sometimes freezes the process.

[maddrummer3301]

Hi,
When I get time today I'll encode a 30 minutes DV.Avi file Type 1 using the
same process as yours both in MF4 and MF5.
I'll use the same DV.avi file.
Your Dv.avi file your encoding is probably Type-1?
MF4 seems to default to Type-2 and MF5 as far as I can see is Type-1.
Unless I missed it I don't have the optiion between Type-1 or Type-2 with MF5 but it's stated in the MF5 pdf manual as being there. I couldn't find it under the "Advanced Options". Maybe I missed it.
I usually capture type-2.

MD

[JoReneA]

I think all the avi files are type 2, which as you say is the default in MF4. I captured the avi files using MF4 a while ago. But I used the same files in both projects. I did notice that I used a different menu template for the two projects, but I'm sure that wouldn't cause the difference in quality of the actual videos.

[maddrummer3301]

Thanks,
I was just about to capture and was pondering on the Type 1 or 2 thing.

Capturing now.

MD

[sjj1805]

DV type 1 = Audio/Video are combined as one.
DV type 2 = audio/video are seperated from each other.

The default setting is type 2 due to compatability issues with older software/hardware. However the preferred setting is the opposite.

It is better to use DV type 1.
Steve J

[htchien]

For system restore, as Heinz said System Restore only restore the registry settings of Windows, not the files. It could cause some serious problems for programs (especially for programs that will share some common DLLs) so I do not recommend to use System Restore (I always turn that off).

For the MPEG encoder in DVDMF 5, it's not changed (still Ulead MPEG.Now) but it includes some high definition encoding capabilities. If you wish to see more details in project properties, do the followings:

1. Open System Drive:\Documents and Settings\All Users\Application Data\Ulead Systems\<Product Name>\<Product Version>\<Product INI file> with some text editor. In this case:

<System Drive> -> Usually it's the C: drive
<Product Name> -> Ulead DVD MovieFactory
<Product Version> -> 5.0
<Product INI file> -> DVDMF.ini

You need to remove the hidden attribute of the Application Data folder by using Tools->Folder Options in Windows Explorer first.

2. Find the [VIODRIVER] section and add the following line:

Advance=1

3. Save the ini file then open your Ulead product.

4. Open project properties and select MPEG Settings->Customize->Compression, you will see an Advanced button to be appeared.

5. Clicks on the Advanced button then you will see the details of project properties.

Hope this helps.

H.T.

[nyco_ork]

For system restore, as Heinz said System Restore only restore the registry settings of Windows, not the files. It could cause some serious problems for programs (especially for programs that will share some common DLLs) so I do not recommend to use System Restore (I always turn that off).


H.T.

I'd like to quote from the opening paragraph of the chapter on System Restore in the book "Windows XP Inside Out," which is a Microsoft-approved book on XP.

"When a rogue program or buggy driver causes your system to crash, the System Restore feature can be a lifesafer."

I have always used System Restore for correcting situations caused by new installations that go bad, and have always had excellent results until this episode with Movie Factory.

I think that

1) anyone who doesn't use System Restore when installing a new program is asking for trouble, and

2) since System Restore is designed for just this type of situation, then the program involved must be even buggier than usual. I sent a report to Ulead through their website, and they are looking into the problem.

Having now had this experience, I will also always use Resplendant Registrar to make a copy of the entire registry before I do a new installation. It must pick up things that System Restore misses.

Richard

[sjj1805]

I have a multi boot system. My method is much safer. I try out new software or updates etc on the back up system. Only when I am satisfied that all is well do I install onto my normal day to day system.

Steve J

[htchien]

Hi Richard,

I think I will not comment on the words of Microsoft.

For your steps on System Restore, I have a question. You said:

I set a restore point, uninstalled MF4, rebooted, set a new restore point, and installed the MF5 trial. Since it was no improvement, I restored the system to the pre-MF4 uninstallation. But after that MF4 wouldn't load. I got the windows "shutting down application" error message. I tried to uninstall MF4 so I could reinstall it, and even the uninstaller wouldn't load. I tried restoring to an even earlier point, the daily bootup, but no help there either. Finally I restored to the point between uninstalling MF4 and installing MF5.

What I want to ask is, you have uninstalled MF4 first, right?

To make it clear, I think you have done the following steps?

1. Set restore point before MF4. Let's call the SR point as SR1_MF4.
2. Uninstall MF4, rebooted and set a new restore point. It's SR2_No_MF4. Note: at this time the files for MF4 are been removed.
3. Install MF5 trial.
4. Restore system registry to pre-MF4 uninstallation, which is SR1_MF4.

You said in here MF4 won't load, but I think it's reasonable because files for MF4 are been removed in step 2, only the registry settings are been restored in the system. Unless you have installed MF4 again before you do step 4.

Please keep in mind that System Restore only restore system registry settings, not files.

If the situation is not what I think then I think you might need to describe you steps more clearly so people can help.

BTW, what capture device do you use to have the problem in MF 4/5?


Hi Steve,

Great advice. I also do it in the same way with 2 PCs but I think some people might not be able to have 2 PCs for the purpose, isn't it?

I sometimes will use Microsoft VirtualPC to create a virtual machine with Windows XP for software testing, which is also great.


Hope this helps.

H.T.

[nyco_ork]

Hi Richard,

To make it clear, I think you have done the following steps?

1. Set restore point before MF4. Let's call the SR point as SR1_MF4.
2. Uninstall MF4, rebooted and set a new restore point. It's SR2_No_MF4. Note: at this time the files for MF4 are been removed.
3. Install MF5 trial.
4. Restore system registry to pre-MF4 uninstallation, which is SR1_MF4.

You said in here MF4 won't load, but I think it's reasonable because files for MF4 are been removed in step 2, only the registry settings are been restored in the system. Unless you have installed MF4 again before you do step 4.

Please keep in mind that System Restore only restore system registry settings, not files.

H.T.

H.T.,

The procedure I followed is as you describe. I restored to your SR1_MF4. However, It has not been my experience that system restore does not restore files. As I've written in previous posts, I've done this multiple times, with many programs, and the SR always returns the system to full functionality, including the uninstalled program, after the restore -- except in this case. In fact, it has sometimes annoyed me that SR restores files, because it's done so with files I had purposely deleted, and after the restore there they were again.

My capture card is a Philips Phildecn card built into the IBM A31p laptop. When I tried capturing in MF4 or 5 the video was jerky. In MF4, when I looked at the capture plugin list, it said I had a DSW-compatible Direct Show capture driver, supposedly compaitible but it isn't acting like it.

I probably will follow Steve's advice and test on a different system disc. I have four system discs for two laptops (one is for internet, Photoshop, and word processing, the other is for video), so I can use one of the backup system discs to do testing. Since I had not enocountered problems this severe before, I hadn't done so, but I see that DVD authoring is a different ballgame.

Right now I'm capturing in MyDVD LE, editing in VideoReDo, and authoring in MF4. That has worked well for HQ projects, but I just tried my first SP project and have run into a different set of problems, which I will address in a separate thread if I can't sort them out myself.

Richard

[maddrummer3301]

JoReneA,
(I think we have 2 subjects in this thread).
Yes, I can see a difference.

I wanted to capture in the same dv type as you did and I captured Type 2.
(MF5 doesn't have the option, it's not available on my capture screen )

I used the defaults of MF4 and MF5 to encode. Both settings were the same.

The encoding was done on the final output stage/module for both programs using the dv.avi Type-2 file recorded from MF4.

I burnt dvd folders of the recording so I had 2 video_ts folders on the harddisk. One from MF4 & the other from MF5.
Then imported the mpeg2 files from each one so I had 2 thumbnails on the timeline, made chapters and burnt a dvd.
So I had a dvd with one video encoded by MF4 and the other encoded by MF5 Both as 2 thumbnails auto-chaptered at 3 minutes.

After playing the videos back I found a section to test on that was panning across an outside wooden deck with the upright bridging about 4 inches apart (deck fencing).
If I used the dvd controller and slow motioned or frame advanced the video encoded by MF5 was missing data. The bridging wasn't as clear as MF4's encoding
Performing the same test of the MF4 video the posts are all visible for every frame. In the MF5 video the outline edges are visible but the center of the posts is missing and white (like no data). I also thought the video encoded by MF5 didn't blend/pan smoothly for moving objects as the MF4 encoded video. My opinion.

When I get time I'll go into the advanced settings of MF4 & MF5 and see the differences (if any) of the pixel depth seaching etc.
That takes time to do so I can't answer anymore in this thread to your posting except that I have the same results.
If I find something different I'll start a new post.

I will encode the file again in MF5 by exporting it from the timeline and
choose 100% compression.

Thankyou so much for pointing this MF5 difference out and also "Thankyou", because the tape I grabbed to record from I had been looking for it now for about 6 months. So now I have a dvd of that tape.

MD


HTChein,
>>>For the MPEG encoder in DVDMF 5, it's not changed (still Ulead
>>>MPEG.Now) but it includes some high definition encoding capabilities. If >>>you wish to see more details in project properties, do the followings:
Somethings different. Maybe a simple setting.
Not only myself but others could tell the difference. Except the blind guy, he didn't care either way.

In MF5 when capture set for DV and file type as "Avi" under "Advanced" the "DV Type" box isn't there or it's invisible. I was just looking at the ini files possibly to activate it. Haven't found the setting yet.
Maybe they don't want MF5 capturing in Type-2?

MD

[sjj1805]

For anyone interested in my multi-boot set up please read the 4th subject down in this link:
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=12358

Regards
Steve J

[snoops]

There seems to be some weirdness in the encoder settings... maybe this will help to find the wrong settings...

After adding Advance=1 to the [VIODRIVER] section in DVDMF.INI, start MF5. Before starting a project, check the settings in the template you will be using with "Edit" in the "Disc Template Manager" (not the project settings, not yet).

For example in "HQ 4:3 [Dolby Digital]", in the Advanced Video Settings -> Additional Settings, you'll notice Progressive is selected for Sequence and Frame (not field/interlaced). Also note the exact bitrates (Max/Avg/Min) and quality settings in the Video Settings. Compared to MF3 they are quite different (I don't have MF4).

Start a project and load the project setting you've just checked: "Change MPEG Settings", pick from list, "OK".

Now "Change MPEG Settings" and choose "Customize". Hey, look at the (low) bitrates in there now! Hopefully a bug in "Customize", and not also when the template is loaded?!

[htchien]

H.T.,

The procedure I followed is as you describe. I restored to your SR1_MF4. However, It has not been my experience that system restore does not restore files. As I've written in previous posts, I've done this multiple times, with many programs, and the SR always returns the system to full functionality, including the uninstalled program, after the restore -- except in this case. In fact, it has sometimes annoyed me that SR restores files, because it's done so with files I had purposely deleted, and after the restore there they were again.

Maybe my understanding of System Restore is wrong, but if what you said is true then MF4 should not have problems because all the files and registry settings are been restored. Maybe System Restore does not restore all files?

My capture card is a Philips Phildecn card built into the IBM A31p laptop. When I tried capturing in MF4 or 5 the video was jerky. In MF4, when I looked at the capture plugin list, it said I had a DSW-compatible Direct Show capture driver, supposedly compaitible but it isn't acting like it.

Personally I would think it's a driver issue. Have you contacted IBM to see if any updated driver?

I probably will follow Steve's advice and test on a different system disc. I have four system discs for two laptops (one is for internet, Photoshop, and word processing, the other is for video), so I can use one of the backup system discs to do testing. Since I had not enocountered problems this severe before, I hadn't done so, but I see that DVD authoring is a different ballgame.

Richard

If you have done so, please let us know the result.

Best regards,
H.T.