Audio Synch Issues

rckowal · Post by **rckowal** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 10:44 pm

I'm using DVD Movie Factory 4.04 SE (installed from the latest Hauppage Vs. 3.0 CD) with the Hauppage WinTV PVR-USB2 capture device connected to an analogue TV receiver by S-Video & AV cable.

When I capture a movie from TV (with Hauppage Win TV 2000); cut the ends slightly using DVDMF to remove extraneous footage & then burn it to the hard drive as a Video_TS file, the audio synch is fine. It has not being re-authored. There are no chapters, transitions, etc. used - just the bare movie itself.

But if I burn that same Video_TS file to a DVD disc (using DVDMF), the audio is out of synch with the video. It starts out ok at the beginning of the movie but gradually becomes worse as it plays.

I've searched this forum (& others) for solutions to this perennial problem, but nearly everything I find is pretty old (2004/early 2005) & probably outdated.

MY QUESTION: Other than using third party software; are there any REALLY CURRENT fixes for DVDMF which enable such burned DVDs to stay in synch?

Your help will be very much appreciated.

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Wed Mar 01, 2006 11:55 pm

... cut the ends slightly using DVDMF...

It's probably the editing... I thought you could get-away with trimming the ends... maybe not.

A couple of things you can do to track-down the problem - Try using the other little MPEG editor that came with your Hauppauge card. (Win-TV MPEG Editor?) Or, try making a DVD without trimming the ends.

I also have a Hauppauge card, and I use WinTV-200 for capture, and Womble for editing. When it comes to MPEGs, the only thing I use use Ulead for, is to author & burn DVDs.

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:20 am

rckowal
Like DVDDoug I also use WinTV2000 to capture from my Hauppauge TV card and I edit with Womble. (The Hauppauge will only capture in MPEG)

You may be interested in looking at the following two articles I have written
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11379
and also
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11524

Regards
Steve J

rckowal · Post by **rckowal** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:46 am

DVDDoug wrote:
... cut the ends slightly using DVDMF...
It's probably the editing... I thought you could get-away with trimming the ends... maybe not.

A couple of things you can do to track-down the problem - Try using the other little MPEG editor that came with your Hauppauge card. (Win-TV MPEG Editor?) Or, try making a DVD without trimming the ends.

I also have a Hauppauge card, and I use WinTV-200 for capture, and Womble for editing. When it comes to MPEGs, the only thing I use use Ulead for, is to author & burn DVDs.

Thanks for the reply DVDDoug, it's appreciated.

I've already tried the WinTV MPEG Editor & found that it apparently doesn't work with MPEG files. Regardless of what I do, the final output file is in some mysterious format. Maybe I'm missing some thing but I'm not alone in reporting that this MPEG editor doesn't output in MPEG file format. (go figure!) The best I can determine is that it's there to convert MPEG2 into MPEG1 (VCD or SVCD).

I'll try burning an untrimmed DVD from the capture file to see what happens.

Best regards

rckowal · Post by **rckowal** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:04 am

sjj1805 wrote:rckowal
Like DVDDoug I also use WinTV2000 to capture from my Hauppauge TV card and I edit with Womble. (The Hauppauge will only capture in MPEG)

You may be interested in looking at the following two articles I have written
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11379
and also
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11524

Regards
Steve J

Thanks for the reply Steve, it's appreciated. Based on what you & DVDDoug say; apparently, there is still no solution to the DVDMF 4 audio asynch issue.

I've already seen & read your articles. I haven't yet had a chance to check out the updates you mentioned but intend to do so.

Regarding a related point - a click on the "cog wheel" brings up the Project Settings options. What is the purpose of the one that says "Treat MPEG audio as non-DVD compliant"?

Best regards

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:38 am

"Treat MPEG audio as non-DVD compliant"?

This means that the audio must be rendered

Regards
Steve J

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 12:37 pm

Hi,
If your creating a dvd folder on the harddisk (VIDEO_TS folder) and playing it back using "Power_DVD" or "Win_Dvd" the audio sync problem should also show up.
What software are you using to preview the VIDEO_TS folder on the harddisk? (Don't play the VOB files individually).

I would try this method to possibly fix your problem:
If your only trimming the end of the disk then use the "FAST EXPORT" module.
After trimming the video click on the 3rd Icon down on the left (export icon) and select "Fast Export".

Load that new file into MF4 and burn it as a dvd compliant file to a VIDEO_TS folder.

Your saying it's only when you burn the dvd to a physical disk that the problem is showing up. It should also have the same problem when played from the harddisk if your using Power_Dvd and the feature Play_Dvd_From_Folder etc. I'm not talking about playing the original mpeg2 file. I saying playing the VIDEO_TS folder using a good software player (NOT Windows_Media_Player). If playing back the VIDEO_TS folder on the harddisk works that is a copy of the dvd structure. The same exact thing if you copied from a dvd to the harddisk.
Burning a VIDEO_TS folder is burning a VIDEO_TS Data structure. The program does nothing with the existing video (or shouldn't). It's the same as burning a data dvd except the dvd is marked as a Dvd-Video disk.

How are you burning this VIDEO_TS folder that you have created on the harddisk that you say is playing in_sync.

Usually audio sync problems will occur if you split the mpeg2 file (cut into it).
If your only trimming the beginning or the end I've haven't had that happen.

MD

rckowal · Post by **rckowal** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 5:59 pm

Thanks for the concise reply Maddrummer, it's very much appreciated.

Since posting, I've discovered a few things. First, on the movie where I saw the asynch, both the VIDEO_VTS file & the DVD actually had some asynch. It was isolated to only a small portion of the movie near its end - otherwise the audio was normal. While experimenting with that movie, it appears that there must have been some spotty asynch in the movie as broadcast on TV.

Ironically, just last evening, I saw another movie on cable TV which did the same thing. There were brief, spotty periods of asynch - otherwise the audio was completely normal. Why is anyones guess.

I haven't however, been able to see any asynch on two (different) movies made after the original one. Regardless, I'll answer your questions since the information may be of value to some one following this thread.

maddrummer3301 wrote:If your creating a dvd folder on the harddisk (VIDEO_TS folder) and playing it back using "Power_DVD" or "Win_Dvd" the audio sync problem should also show up.

I was using Power DVD when I saw the out of synch.

What software are you using to preview the VIDEO_TS folder on the harddisk? (Don't play the VOB files individually).

I didn't playback individual VOB files.

I would try this method to possibly fix your problem:

I will try that method.

How are you burning this VIDEO_TS folder that you have created on the harddisk that you say is playing in_sync.

I used the burning option in DVD MF 4.04, which I believe is Ulead DVD Disc Recorder 2.1.

Best regards

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 6:45 pm

Hi,
Forgot to mention:
The fast export feature uses the original files properties. So the original
recording should be a DVD compliant file. Otherwise even the file that's exported
will have to be made dvd compliant.
You already know that.

I'll burn a VIDEO_TS folder by from the launcher screen selecting "Fit To Disc" brings up the choices to burn a dvd folder or iso file.

Nero can also burn a dvd video folder. When you start nero you have to
select DVD-Video. In the compilation window you'll see the VIDEO_TS folder and
just drag your folder to files into that folder. I use Nero alot because it
has a "Verify" feature.

MD

rckowal · Post by **rckowal** » Thu Mar 02, 2006 8:19 pm

Thanks again MD. A new question please. I want to edit out a commercial & trim the ends from a DVD compliant movie capture. When using DVDMFs "cut" function; am I likely to run into asynch if I join those three segments back together before burning?

maddrummer3301 wrote:Hi, Forgot to mention: The fast export feature uses the original files properties. So the original recording should be a DVD compliant file. Otherwise even the file that's exported will have to be made dvd compliant. You already know that.

All of my movie files are DVD compliant captures. That simplifies things.

I'll burn a VIDEO_TS folder by from the launcher screen selecting "Fit To Disc" brings up the choices to burn a dvd folder or iso ile.

I don't understand. Please clarify.

Nero can also burn a dvd video folder. When you start nero you have to select DVD-Video. In the compilation window you'll see the VIDEO_TS folder and just drag your folder to files into that folder. I use Nero alot because it has a "Verify" feature.

I have & still do use Nero 7.

Best regards

DVDDoug · Post by **DVDDoug** » Fri Mar 03, 2006 12:55 am

I want to edit out a commercial & trim the ends from a DVD compliant movie capture. When using DVDMFs "cut" function; am I likely to run into asynch...

It can happen, but I don't know how likely it is. Some people seem to get away with it. I had these problems from the start. Once I figured-out what was going-on, and I found a solution (Womble), I stopped experimenting.

I know you said you didn't want any 3rd party solutions, but besides the full Womble MPEG Video Wizard ($100) there is Womble MPEG2VCR ($50) which can cut & splice. I don't own it, but I've tried-out the trial version of VideoReDo ($50) which can also cut & splice. VideoReDo looks like a good program... I think those guys really know what they are doing!

I don't understand. Please clarify.

An ISO file is another way of making a DVD image. As far as I can tell, the only advantage to an ISO file is that it will store the volume-label information. It might also have the ability to store other information, such as the Macrovision or CSS flag, etc.

maddrummer3301 · Post by **maddrummer3301** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 2:29 pm

Doug,
I think the way the original mpeg file was created is the issue.
There is a technical difference between mpeg2 & dvd-mpeg2.
(Video buffer or stream packing within the mpeg2 file).

I've used VS9 to cut/split/join large/longmpegs without any sync issues.
Recording the mpeg2 files is done using the ATI capture hardware & software with GOP's on.
I can capture mpeg2 or DVD-Mpeg2 with the ATI software.
I've been using the ATI DVD-Mpeg2 settings with mpeg audio.

I now use a Dvd recorder (panasonic) to record most video on.
Use the split/cut feature on the recorder because it's very fast.
Then use ulead to import the contents of the disk.
Simple, easy & fast.

MD

sjj1805 · Post by **sjj1805** » Sat Mar 04, 2006 8:45 pm

Further to what DVDDoug has mentioned above, I just checked the Womble site to make sure my copy was up to date.
They have now released a new product
MPEG Video Wizard DVD which also performs DVD authoring, though for authoring purposes nowhere near as good as our Ulead products.

Steve J

rckowal · Post by **rckowal** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 1:50 pm

Hello All, Well I'm back from the DVDMF wars with interesting news for those who may still be following this thread.

Since my last post, I've made five DVDs from TV movie captures. All of them have good synch, including two which were cut & clipped into several segments (to remove commercials) then joined back together. All were done using only DVDMF version 4. I don't know if the version (4 vs. 3, 2, etc.) is the reason for this success or I just got lucky. Only more movies will really tell.

I have a final question (unrelated to Ulead or DVDMF) but of great interest to me. All of the TV tuners I've seen thus far seem to support 125 cable channels. My cable provider uses many 100s of channels starting with channel 2 & going as high as into the 800s. Obviously many of these channels will be beyond the range of such tuners.

I understand the difference between analogue & digital channels but can't seem to find anything which discusses what the (apparently standard) 125 channels will actually tune. I'm guessing it may be 125 analogue channels inclusive of 1 through 125. MY QUESTION THEN IS: Are there any tuners which tune all of the digital channels as well? A lot of the desired programming I'm paying for is above channel 125 (probably digital). I would like to access them using a PC based tuner rather than another STB coupled to a 125 channel analogue tuner.

phd · Post by **phd** » Sun Mar 05, 2006 4:02 pm

Several factors to consider.

Where do you live? Are you PAL or NTSC?

Does your cable provider scramble all signals? Premium and basic. If they scramble all the signals including standard broadcast, a tuner card would be useless.

You would need a tuner card that supports QAM cable not just OTA.

If the final destination for your files is DVD and your channels are broadcast in HD, you would have to down-convert to DVD quality MPEG files which will be time intensive and may reintroduce AV sync issues.

Based upon your answers to these questions would determine whether or not it's worth the time, money and effort to record with a digital tuner card.