From NTSC to PAL

Post Reply
AnnaM

From NTSC to PAL

Post by AnnaM »

I really need to do my dvds in both NTSC and PAL. Once I ahve done a project in ntsc, is there a way, I can use the same menus, chapter points etc to do it in PAL? I presuem I will need to output the video in premiere to PAL mpg format??, or will using the same .mpg video that I use for the NTSC project, work as a PAL project in ULead.?

As it is now, I am outputting a Premiere project to mpg, then importing that into ULead. Would love to use the same mpg and chpters and menus etc for PAL. In other words wave a magic wand and the ntsc project is now in pal format, carbon copy, except its PAL.

Am I dreaming? Probably. :)
Devil
Posts: 3032
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:06 am
Location: Cyprus

Post by Devil »

Yes, you are dreaming. It is most decidedly never recommended to do as you wish. To do it correctly, and I've said this many times on this and other forums, you have to go back to the original AVI (e.g., wrapped round a DV Type 1, for preference). You convert this to the other standard and only then encode to the new MPG.

However, that having been said, you are wasting your time, as PAL players accept NTSC discs. Just send the latter to all your PAL correspondents, keine Probleme!
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]

[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
Greg
Posts: 146
Joined: Mon Jan 31, 2005 1:37 pm
Location: South Africa

Post by Greg »

A small caveat, most PAL players will play back NTSC, not all!

Regards,
Greg
GeorgeW
Posts: 2595
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:25 am

Post by GeorgeW »

AnnaM,

Some packages will allow you to change the Standard (NTSC<>PAL), and the package will re-create the dvd automatically -- changing the menus and converting the video, etc...

I haven't tried it on any extended length projects (where you might get audio sync issues), but I've seen it work for a short project in Ulead's DVD MovieFactory 4.0DC. The menus switched over and everything. But DVD MF does not give you the Advanced Features of DVD Workshop (subtitles, multiple audio tracks, fully customizable menus, playlists, etc...).

As mentioned by Devil, most PAL DVD Players will play NTSC DVD's.

Regards,
George
sjj1805
Posts: 14383
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:20 am
operating_system: Windows XP Pro
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 32 Bit
motherboard: Equium P200-178
processor: Intel Pentium Dual-Core Processor T2080
ram: 2 GB
Video Card: Intel 945 Express
sound_card: Intel GMA 950
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1160 GB
Location: Birmingham UK

Post by sjj1805 »

AnnaM
A tutorial has recently been created by lancecarr detailing
PAL to NTSC Conversion and vice versa.
http://phpbb.ulead.com.tw/EN/viewtopic.php?t=11847

Regards
Steve J
GeorgeW
Posts: 2595
Joined: Sat Dec 11, 2004 5:25 am

Post by GeorgeW »

Hi Steve,

The only thing is that procedure does not have the "Magic Wand" that AnnaM is looking for :)

Regards,
George
AnnaM

Post by AnnaM »

Hmmm, many thanks to all. I get the feeling its really not worth the effort. Ido plan to sell some DVDs to EU, mostly will be UK, France, Germany I would say. Thats good to know. I dont think I will even bother now. A lot of extra work for really nuttin!
Thanks.
Anna
AnnaM

Post by AnnaM »

Steve, it looks like from your posting that you are in the UK. Is that your expereince/opinon too, that most players there will play NTSC? Thansk for your help.
sjj1805
Posts: 14383
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:20 am
operating_system: Windows XP Pro
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 32 Bit
motherboard: Equium P200-178
processor: Intel Pentium Dual-Core Processor T2080
ram: 2 GB
Video Card: Intel 945 Express
sound_card: Intel GMA 950
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1160 GB
Location: Birmingham UK

Post by sjj1805 »

AnnaM

I have yet to find a Standalone DVD player here in the UK that doesn't play NTSC.

Regards
Steve J
AnnaM

Post by AnnaM »

I am puzzled why that is. My understanding is PAL and NTSC are totally different technologies, as far as how they paint the tv screen, the circutiry etc. There must be some reason PAL tapes will not play in US vhs machines and vice versa. ? LIke trying to play a betamax tape in a vhs machine. I don't get it, but I like it anyway. :?:
sjj1805
Posts: 14383
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:20 am
operating_system: Windows XP Pro
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 32 Bit
motherboard: Equium P200-178
processor: Intel Pentium Dual-Core Processor T2080
ram: 2 GB
Video Card: Intel 945 Express
sound_card: Intel GMA 950
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1160 GB
Location: Birmingham UK

Post by sjj1805 »

Don't confuse old technology with new.

When we look at the old VHS tapes there was a problem and not all VHS players here in the UK would play NTSC tapes.
With the new technology DVD I haven't yet come across a DVD player here in the UK that wouldn't play NTSC.

http://www.wisegeek.com/what-is-the-dif ... nd-pal.htm
In the United States and other countries, electrical power is generated at 60 hertz, so for technical reasons the NTSC signal is also sent out at 60 'fields' per second. Since most televisions use an interlaced system, this means that 30 lines of the image are sent out, followed by the alternating 30 lines. This line alternation happens so fast that it becomes undetectable, much like a film running through a projector. The result for an NTSC television is 30 frames of a complete image appearing every second.

Since Europe uses a 50 hertz power supply, the equivalent PAL lines go out at 50 fields per second, or 25 alternating lines. PAL televisions only produce 25 complete frames per second, which can cause some problems with the proper display of motion. Think of it as the 'silent movie effect', in which the actors seem to move a little faster because there are fewer frames showing movement. If a PAL movie is converted to an NTSC tape, 5 extra frames must be added per second or the action might seem jerky. The opposite is true for an NTSC movie converted to PAL. Five frames must be removed per second or the action may seem unnaturally slow.

Another difference between NTSC and PAL formats is resolution quality. PAL may have fewer frames per second, but it also has more lines than NTSC. PAL television broadcasts contain 625 lines of resolution, compared to NTSC's 525. More lines usually means more visual information, which equals better picture quality and resolution. Whenever an NTSC videotape is converted to PAL, black bars are often used to compensate for the smaller screen aspect, much like letterboxing for widescreen movies.
Steve J
AnnaM

Post by AnnaM »

So does the 5 frames per second difference between the two, make the dvd look a little odd? Or is it too negliglbe to matter? Or are the machines in fact detecting its NTSC and changing over to different circuitry? thanks for your advice, I apprpeciate it.
sjj1805
Posts: 14383
Joined: Wed Jan 26, 2005 7:20 am
operating_system: Windows XP Pro
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 32 Bit
motherboard: Equium P200-178
processor: Intel Pentium Dual-Core Processor T2080
ram: 2 GB
Video Card: Intel 945 Express
sound_card: Intel GMA 950
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1160 GB
Location: Birmingham UK

Post by sjj1805 »

I don't know the technical details just the results.
When I view a NTSC DVD here in the UK it looks the same as its PAL equivalant.

Steve J
Devil
Posts: 3032
Joined: Fri Mar 18, 2005 8:06 am
Location: Cyprus

Post by Devil »

The PAL DVD players incorporate conversion in their firmware - and even my oldest machine plays NTSC, as well as PAL.

I surmise that it a) duplicates lines to change 480 into 576; b) chops fields (rather than frames) to change 29.97 to 25; c) applies a chroma conversion and d) applies a smoothing filter, rather than do a true conversion in real time. Whatever, it works very well and, on an ordinary TV, it is hardly visible.

I have NEVER seen a PAL DVD player that doesn't have this possibility. Most VHS players since about 1996 also played NTSC, but could not record it (some top end models could), so the DVD players probably use the same conversion technology. I have a number of NTSC DVDs, both commercial and DVD-R, and have no problems.

Why the opposite is not done on NTSC players is probably a question of protectionism. Hollywood possibly does not want European versions of their blockbusters to compete with their overpriced new releases.
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]

[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
Post Reply