Why is Ulead DMF4 re-encoding already DVD compliant files ?

fanirama · Post by **fanirama** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:31 pm

Hi,
I am trying out the 30 day trial of the DMF4 and I'm impressed thus far.
Giving it tv captured video from comcast dvr in mpeg2 program stream ( 720x480, 24bpp, 8Mbps VBR, AC3 DD 320Kbps ) it did a superb job burning to DVD. Quality seems ok on the TV. I'm going to demux the vob files later to see what resolution they're finally at.

---> However, now when I'm giving it another mpeg2 program stream video already in DVD compliant size, its showing the
1) wrong file size in project window ( presumably as it wants to reencode)
2) wants to reencode already dvd complaint video ?

Why is this happening. Please help me.
Here are my video settings :
NTSC 29.97 fps, Mpeg2 Program Stream @ 704x480, 24bpp, 8Mbps VBR
AC3 DD 192Kbps audio
file size is : 887MB

In Ulead DMF4 its showing file size as 1.4GB after importing the video.

1. Why is DMF4 trying to re-encode already DVD compliant video ?
In the project settings I changed the mpeg2 resolution to 704x480, 192Kbps audio and checked the box that says "don't convert mpeg2/dvd complaint video"

If I let it go ahead and re-encode and do its thing, the audio/video get out of sync and secondly I cannot fit 4 episodes onto 1 dvd 4.7GB disc. Only 3 fit now.

Please help.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:35 pm

Did you trim or edit the source clips

Drop one of your source videos into a completely new project, and just burn the dvd to your hard drive. How long does it take to build the DVD Folders on your hard drive, and how long is the source video clip?

Regards,
George

fanirama · Post by **fanirama** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:44 pm

GeorgeW wrote:Did you trim or edit the source clips

Drop one of your source videos into a completely new project, and just burn the dvd to your hard drive. How long does it take to build the DVD Folders on your hard drive, and how long is the source video clip?

Regards,
George

Yes, the source was edited.
Here's the process I followed -
1. using CapDVHS I captured a 60-min episode. It captures mpeg2 transport stream
2. used Womble MPEG Video Wizard DVD to edit out commercials and convert to MPEG2 program stream. ( Made sure GOP size compliance was checked for DVD compliance in MVW DVD ). Resultant file resolution are same as source:
887MB, 704x480, 24bpp, 8Mbps VBR, AC3 DD 192Kbps
3. now I import this to MF4 to burn. Here's where its giving issues.

Oh ! and source is 1.3GB
Its in Mpeg 2 transport stream and MF4 is not accepting it. It hangs and I've to kill the process eventually while importing this source file.

If i give it a proper mpeg2 720x480 program stream, it takes approx. 20min to convert to vob and burn the 4.7GB DVD.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 5:59 pm

DMF4 won't convert DVD compliant/properly encoded program streams. If you drop the 887mb video (from Womble), it should just build your dvd without re-encoding (as long as Womble produced a valid dvd program stream).

The 20 minutes for a full dvd5 disc sounds "normal" -- if it was re-encoding your video I suspect it would take alot longer than 20 minutes...

Regards,
George

tyamada · Post by **tyamada** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:04 pm

You might want to check what the field order is on your clip and match it to the output. Everything on the input must match the output for smart rendering to take place.

Also 704X480 is not a standare DVD output size. It is usually 720X480.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:13 pm

tyamada wrote:You might want to check what the field order is on your clip and match it to the output. Everything on the input must match the output for smart rendering to take place.

Also 704X480 is not a standare DVD output size. It is usually 720X480.

I don't think Field order in the project settings will make a difference if the clip within DMF4 is NOT being modified, it is already compliant, and "Do not convert compliant mpeg files" is checked.

704x480 is a dvd compliant resolution, so DMF should be able to use it without re-encoding.

Regards,
George

fanirama · Post by **fanirama** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:18 pm

tyamada wrote:You might want to check what the field order is on your clip and match it to the output. Everything on the input must match the output for smart rendering to take place.

Also 704X480 is not a standare DVD output size. It is usually 720X480.

it says "Upeer field order first"
and I thought 704x480 is a valid DVD resolution - what was it - full D2 or something like that

tyamada · Post by **tyamada** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:38 pm

GeorgeW:

I guess MF4 doesn't have a choice to change field order, however in VS9 and MSP8 under smart render if just one of the properties don't match you will end up re-rendering your video. The reason I know is that my field order in the project settings didn't match and it started to re-render the file.

If you select a DVD as a final output your project will default to 720X480 is the standard for a DVD. You can probably change the resolution to 704X480 and get good results but it isn't standard.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:54 pm

tyamada:

In VS8 and VS9, the editing process will take into account the project settings when you go to render your video -- and then it's important to match everything up for smart render to work.

HOWEVER, we are talking about the Authoring stage, and if you have compliant mpeg videos, the authoring program will use your compliant videos without re-rendering (as long as you have the "do not convert..." option turned on).

Even the Authoring module within VS9 will use your compliant mpeg video "asis" (even if you don't have the same field order in the Authoring project settings -- please try it).

704x480 is absolutely a standard NTSC DVD resolution -- it is in the official DVD Specs.

Regards,
George

fanirama · Post by **fanirama** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:11 pm

thanks george and tymada.
However, please let me know the solution for my audio/video sync issue.
I don't mind it reencoding all that as long as it produces a good quality video with NO audio/video sync issue.

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:22 pm

fanirama, have you tried the test I suggested -- put one of your edited videos from Womble into a new DMF4 project, and a menu (no motion for faster results), and burn the dvd to your hard drive. Did it re-encode your womble video, or did it use it "asis"

Also, is the video/audio in sync after you edit in Womble?

Regards,
George

fanirama · Post by **fanirama** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:48 pm

GeorgeW wrote:fanirama, have you tried the test I suggested -- put one of your edited videos from Womble into a new DMF4 project, and a menu (no motion for faster results), and burn the dvd to your hard drive. Did it re-encode your womble video, or did it use it "asis"

Also, is the video/audio in sync after you edit in Womble?

Regards,
George

Trying now... will keep you posted.
Yes, audio/video are in sync after I edit in Womble. Opened fine in VLC, WMP, Intervideo WinDVD and in Ulead DMF4 ok.

Also -- do you know of any tool like VobEdit that'll give me all the info about the mpeg2 vob file ( resolution, bit rate, audio etc. ) without having to demux the VOB file into its elementary streams ?

GeorgeW · Post by **GeorgeW** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:03 pm

If you right-click/media clip properties (or hit the i button next to the timeline) in MF4, you should get that sort of info.

Are you creating *.mpg videos out of Womble, or *.vob files

Regards,
George

tyamada · Post by **tyamada** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:11 pm

GeorgeW:

I just tried to create a DVD from a file with properties of
720X480 29.97 fps
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 4400)
mpeg layer 2 audio.

Movie Factory Default project setting for DVD

24 Bits, 720 x 480, 29.97 fps
(DVD-NTSC), 4:3
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 7000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 256 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

The program re-rendered my video.

fanirama · Post by **fanirama** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:11 pm

GeorgeW wrote:If you right-click/media clip properties (or hit the i button next to the timeline) in MF4, you should get that sort of info.

Are you creating *.mpg videos out of Womble, or *.vob files

Regards,
George

Thanks. Yes. The media clip properties works for mpg files. Will use it for VOB files as well.
Yes, I'm creating *.mpg files out of Womble ( mpeg2 program stream )

Anyways, I did your test.

I dropped the 887MB file into a new project and burned a dvd folder.
It took 2 min 30 sec in total ( it said it needed some time to render but i guess it didn't need to as it finished in 2.5 mins, it said it was preparing video title, muxing vob, finalizing vob etc. usual messages )
The resulting DVD folder interestingly is only 814MB which is less than the original file size.
This DVD folder played using WinDVD *has* the audio/video sync issue. So it is Ulead DMF4 that's introducing an audio/video sync here.

Its only doing it for files that are 704x480/AC3 audio DD 192Kbps.

Its not having audio/video sync issues for 720x480 mpeg2 with AC3 DD 320Kbps.