Hello
I'm extracting a few clips that I created from another program (Just straight clips, no transitions).
I'd like to finnish the project in 'Media Studio Pro'
Can you guys recomend the best file type to create for importing into 'Media Studio Pro' ?
MPEG2, AVI, or DV-AVI?
After I get these files imported into 'Media Studio Pro' that's where I'll create my fades, and cross fades.
Thanx for your help
Best file to export for Media Pro - MPEG2? or AVI
I'd import them in their native format. The least preferable is MPEG-2 or any other lossy format.
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
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enigmacode
What AVI? DV is AVI, HuffYUV is AVI, MPEG-4 can be AVI, MJPEG is AVI etc. AVI is not a format per se, it is only a wrapper, like the paper round a book. Before you remove the paper, you don't know whether the contents are a penny thriller, the Bible, an encyclopaedia or whether it's written in English, French or Mandarin Chinese.
Normally, when you capture a video, using any software, you must do one of 2 things:
1) you digitally transfer the data from a camera to your hard disk, wrapping it in an AVI file, like DV, but without modifying it. OR
2) you transform an analogue video signal into a digital one, using a hardware or software codec, wrapping the digital stream up in an AVI file. You normally have a choice of different codecs for this job.
This is what I call the "native" format and all editing work should ideally be kept in the same format until you are ready to encode it to MPEG-2 for a DVD.
Normally, when you capture a video, using any software, you must do one of 2 things:
1) you digitally transfer the data from a camera to your hard disk, wrapping it in an AVI file, like DV, but without modifying it. OR
2) you transform an analogue video signal into a digital one, using a hardware or software codec, wrapping the digital stream up in an AVI file. You normally have a choice of different codecs for this job.
This is what I call the "native" format and all editing work should ideally be kept in the same format until you are ready to encode it to MPEG-2 for a DVD.
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
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enigmacode
Hello again Devil:
"1) you digitally transfer the data from a camera to your hard disk, wrapping it in an AVI file, like DV, but without modifying it."
Understood thank you - yes that's what I've been doing
Added to this - wanted to know when I export a clip that has been edited (with simple cuts - no fades or tranistions) in Magix Pro Edit, I can use as an export, what Magix Edit Pro calls a DV-AVI which is similar to an AVI. The settings are similar ...but DV-AVI export is just apparently a more prestine file but very similar...
This is a statement from the Magix Forum regarding the use of DV-AVI for best export:
"DV AVI, is the quickest and unless you have changed large parts of the video e.g. applied lots of video effects it will give the best quality - because it will copy the unchanged parts, so there won't be any further encoding."
So then to simplify this - it sounds like you're suggesting:
"The "native" format and all editing work should ideally be kept in the same format until you are ready to encode it to MPEG-2 for a DVD"
Yes the only editing that I'll be doing in 'Magix' to the raw AVI capture, will be simple cuts, with possibly some added sound effects - but NO changes in the appearance of the Video.
So then if I have some edited clips from Magix, just export them via DV-AVI, and bring them into Ulead VS9, or Pro 8 for the final finnishing touches - fades, transitions, titles etc ...
Thanx
"1) you digitally transfer the data from a camera to your hard disk, wrapping it in an AVI file, like DV, but without modifying it."
Understood thank you - yes that's what I've been doing
Added to this - wanted to know when I export a clip that has been edited (with simple cuts - no fades or tranistions) in Magix Pro Edit, I can use as an export, what Magix Edit Pro calls a DV-AVI which is similar to an AVI. The settings are similar ...but DV-AVI export is just apparently a more prestine file but very similar...
This is a statement from the Magix Forum regarding the use of DV-AVI for best export:
"DV AVI, is the quickest and unless you have changed large parts of the video e.g. applied lots of video effects it will give the best quality - because it will copy the unchanged parts, so there won't be any further encoding."
So then to simplify this - it sounds like you're suggesting:
"The "native" format and all editing work should ideally be kept in the same format until you are ready to encode it to MPEG-2 for a DVD"
Yes the only editing that I'll be doing in 'Magix' to the raw AVI capture, will be simple cuts, with possibly some added sound effects - but NO changes in the appearance of the Video.
So then if I have some edited clips from Magix, just export them via DV-AVI, and bring them into Ulead VS9, or Pro 8 for the final finnishing touches - fades, transitions, titles etc ...
Thanx
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Terry Stetler
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Westland, Michigan USA
My workflow is to capture DV/AVI, do the pre-production work (draw masks, lower thirds & bugs in PhotoImpact 11, do the audio work in Cubase etc.), edit the project then export DVD compliant MPEG with DVD chapter markers embedded (MSP8 only). I then author with DVD Workshop2.
The main variance from this is when I'm using key effects (blue/green screen etc.). Then I go to the studio and capture uncompressed RGB/AVI (30 mb/s
) so as to maximize the key quality.
Archiving the project works this way; first I use the Smart Package function to copy or move all the source files plus an updated project file, proxies etc. into a single folder in the root of the RAID array.
This folder gets zipped up (low compression for speedy processing, it's just used as a package) named with the customer number or event name/date. It then gets copied to a large removable HDD used for archiving projects and put in the storage safe.
The main variance from this is when I'm using key effects (blue/green screen etc.). Then I go to the studio and capture uncompressed RGB/AVI (30 mb/s
) so as to maximize the key quality.Archiving the project works this way; first I use the Smart Package function to copy or move all the source files plus an updated project file, proxies etc. into a single folder in the root of the RAID array.
This folder gets zipped up (low compression for speedy processing, it's just used as a package) named with the customer number or event name/date. It then gets copied to a large removable HDD used for archiving projects and put in the storage safe.
Terry Stetler
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enigmacode
Thanx Terry - one more question
Hi Terry Stetler
Looks like you're the man here
Terry I'd be very greatful if I could get your clarification, and opinion:
As I indicated, I've already captured some Video with 'Magix Edit Pro'
but I'm abandoning the editor because of glitchy transitions and poor disc burns.
The captures are all fine:
DV-AVI Capture
720x480 NTSC 29.97 Frames
48000 Hz PCM Audio
4:3
I like Ulead quite a bit having experience with Video Studio 8 - it blew Pinnacle away.
But I'd like to continue to use Magix for raw cut editing of captured video because it has a multi-track editor.
I'd like to export some of these edited clips into either Ulead Studio 9, or Media Pro 8 - here I willl add all the finishing touches, DVD authoring, and disc burns.
Sooooo the exported edited Video that I bring into Ulead should be AVI or DV-AVI - correct?
Thanx Terry
Looks like you're the man here
Terry I'd be very greatful if I could get your clarification, and opinion:
As I indicated, I've already captured some Video with 'Magix Edit Pro'
but I'm abandoning the editor because of glitchy transitions and poor disc burns.
The captures are all fine:
DV-AVI Capture
720x480 NTSC 29.97 Frames
48000 Hz PCM Audio
4:3
I like Ulead quite a bit having experience with Video Studio 8 - it blew Pinnacle away.
But I'd like to continue to use Magix for raw cut editing of captured video because it has a multi-track editor.
I'd like to export some of these edited clips into either Ulead Studio 9, or Media Pro 8 - here I willl add all the finishing touches, DVD authoring, and disc burns.
Sooooo the exported edited Video that I bring into Ulead should be AVI or DV-AVI - correct?
Thanx Terry
-
Terry Stetler
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Westland, Michigan USA
Sounds like a plan as long as the non-DV avi is of high quality. Of course this type of capture requires an analog capture card like the ATI All in Wonder x600, x800 or their new x1800 XT or a reasonable equivalent.
One non-DV encoding option as noted is uncompressed RGB *.avi or YUV *.avi, depending on your analog capture card. The problem is it requires a very fast SCSI or PATA/SATA RAID array.
Another option is low-loss MJPeg using an analog capture device and either the PICVideo, MainConcept or Morgan Motion JPeg (MJPeg) software codecs. All are very good, compress very fast and all are inexpensive. PICVideo runs about $28 USD while both Morgan and MainConcept are under $20 USD. Google 'em.
Set at their highest quality compression these codecs produce near lossless files, which makes them very good for processing effects in pre-production.
One non-DV encoding option as noted is uncompressed RGB *.avi or YUV *.avi, depending on your analog capture card. The problem is it requires a very fast SCSI or PATA/SATA RAID array.
Another option is low-loss MJPeg using an analog capture device and either the PICVideo, MainConcept or Morgan Motion JPeg (MJPeg) software codecs. All are very good, compress very fast and all are inexpensive. PICVideo runs about $28 USD while both Morgan and MainConcept are under $20 USD. Google 'em.
Set at their highest quality compression these codecs produce near lossless files, which makes them very good for processing effects in pre-production.
Terry Stetler
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enigmacode
Hi Terry
"Of course this type of capture requires an analog capture card like the ATI All in Wonder x600, x800 or their new x1800 XT or a reasonable equivalent."
I'm not sure I follow you?
Why would I need a capture card?
I was going to simply import already captured, and already rawly edited DV-AVI or straight AVI clips into either Studio Pro 8, or Video Studio 9 for the finnishing touches ....
As I mentioned the DV-AVI clips are almost the same quality as the RAW captured AVI clips captured from either a camcorder, or from my Analog Sony Media ....
Thanx Terry ....
"Of course this type of capture requires an analog capture card like the ATI All in Wonder x600, x800 or their new x1800 XT or a reasonable equivalent."
I'm not sure I follow you?
Why would I need a capture card?
I was going to simply import already captured, and already rawly edited DV-AVI or straight AVI clips into either Studio Pro 8, or Video Studio 9 for the finnishing touches ....
As I mentioned the DV-AVI clips are almost the same quality as the RAW captured AVI clips captured from either a camcorder, or from my Analog Sony Media ....
Thanx Terry ....
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Terry Stetler
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Westland, Michigan USA
The reason for also having a good analog capture device goes back to my doing a lot of keys.
NTSC DV video is very nice & pretty but the color samples are spread across 4 pixels horizontally to save file size. This results in 720 horizontal B&W (Luma) samples but only 180 color samples. This is known as using a 4:1:1 color space.
What's with the 4:1:1 ratio? 4 = the Luma sampes (720) and the :1:1 refers to 1/4 that number (180) of chroma blue (Cb) and chroma red (Cr) samples per scanline. The green is calculated from the other three.
Since the human eye pays more attention to the Luma channel and not Cr or Cb NTSC DV looks pretty because of the relatively higher contrast in the Luma channel, but when keying we're not dealing with what the human eye thinks but in hard, cold digital reality.
The problem lies in the 4:1:1 color space having a more smeared edge that blends into the blue/green/color screen, bringing the backgrounds color into play when you do the key. All too often this smear results in a fringe around the object you're overlaying that can be a pain to get rid of.
On the left side of the subject it's the background color smearing into the subject. On the right the subject smears into the background. In either case it's ugly.
In contrast analog captures use a 4:2:2 color space, meaning 720 Luma samples and 360 each for the Cr and Cb channels, again with green being calculated from the other three.
With 4:2:2 there is still a smeared edge, but a smaller one that is much more manageble using MSPro's Blend/Opacity setting in the Overlay Options or what's known as a "garbage matte".
Solution: capture key overlays in RGB/AVI with its 4:2:2 colorspace.
There is also a 4:4:4 color space where all three channels get 720 samples/scanline, but that's only available in higher end hardware.
NTSC DV video is very nice & pretty but the color samples are spread across 4 pixels horizontally to save file size. This results in 720 horizontal B&W (Luma) samples but only 180 color samples. This is known as using a 4:1:1 color space.
What's with the 4:1:1 ratio? 4 = the Luma sampes (720) and the :1:1 refers to 1/4 that number (180) of chroma blue (Cb) and chroma red (Cr) samples per scanline. The green is calculated from the other three.
Since the human eye pays more attention to the Luma channel and not Cr or Cb NTSC DV looks pretty because of the relatively higher contrast in the Luma channel, but when keying we're not dealing with what the human eye thinks but in hard, cold digital reality.
The problem lies in the 4:1:1 color space having a more smeared edge that blends into the blue/green/color screen, bringing the backgrounds color into play when you do the key. All too often this smear results in a fringe around the object you're overlaying that can be a pain to get rid of.
On the left side of the subject it's the background color smearing into the subject. On the right the subject smears into the background. In either case it's ugly.
In contrast analog captures use a 4:2:2 color space, meaning 720 Luma samples and 360 each for the Cr and Cb channels, again with green being calculated from the other three.
With 4:2:2 there is still a smeared edge, but a smaller one that is much more manageble using MSPro's Blend/Opacity setting in the Overlay Options or what's known as a "garbage matte".
Solution: capture key overlays in RGB/AVI with its 4:2:2 colorspace.
There is also a 4:4:4 color space where all three channels get 720 samples/scanline, but that's only available in higher end hardware.
Terry Stetler
I'd like to emphasise what Terry says in his second line that what he says applies to NTSC DV and not PAL DV, which handles colour keying much better, using a colour space of 4:2:0 and not the NTSC 4:1:1. This means that every other horizontal pixel has chroma (colour) data embedded, as opposed to 1 in 4. With PAL, there is therefore little, if any, advantage in converting to 4:2:2 colour space.
I add this, in case any non-NTSC user decides that conversion will help.
I add this, in case any non-NTSC user decides that conversion will help.
[b][i][color=red]Devil[/color][/i][/b]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
[size=84]P4 Core 2 Duo 2.6 GHz/Elite NVidia NF650iSLIT-A/2 Gb dual channel FSB 1333 MHz/Gainward NVidia 7300/2 x 80 Gb, 1 x 300 Gb, 1 x 200 Gb/DVCAM DRV-1000P drive/ Pan NV-DX1&-DX100/MSP8/WS2/PI11/C3D etc.[/size]
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enigmacode
Well I do appreciate all you help
But unfortunately I'm still not clear on a few fundamental things:
I'd like to (if possible), bring over some rough cut footage exported from another editor (Magix), and finnish the project in Ulead adding transitions, and effects where neccesary, then continue onto Ulead authoring.
I have several ways to export from the other program:
MPEG2
AVI
RAW Uncompressed AVI
or DV-AVI
Assuming everything was fine with the first round of rough cuts (and the original capture good), could I get an opinion as to what type of export would be best to bring into Ulead?
Thanx
But unfortunately I'm still not clear on a few fundamental things:
I'd like to (if possible), bring over some rough cut footage exported from another editor (Magix), and finnish the project in Ulead adding transitions, and effects where neccesary, then continue onto Ulead authoring.
I have several ways to export from the other program:
MPEG2
AVI
RAW Uncompressed AVI
or DV-AVI
Assuming everything was fine with the first round of rough cuts (and the original capture good), could I get an opinion as to what type of export would be best to bring into Ulead?
Thanx
-
Terry Stetler
- Posts: 973
- Joined: Thu Mar 17, 2005 3:34 pm
- Location: Westland, Michigan USA
Absent the need for keying or extensive F/X in the final edit: DV *.avi's.
If your HDD's are formatted using NTFS choose DV type 1. If they're not formatted NTFS then DV type 2 in 2 gig chunks.
The editor should give you the choice of which DV type to export. If not then that's one more reason not to use it.
From your system specs I'd bet DV type 1 is the option to use.
Also: forgive the conversation evolving to the technical. Around here conversations often diverge in that direction
If your HDD's are formatted using NTFS choose DV type 1. If they're not formatted NTFS then DV type 2 in 2 gig chunks.
The editor should give you the choice of which DV type to export. If not then that's one more reason not to use it.
From your system specs I'd bet DV type 1 is the option to use.
Also: forgive the conversation evolving to the technical. Around here conversations often diverge in that direction
Terry Stetler