Slow playback start - normal?

malc · Post by **malc** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 6:04 pm

I'm trying the VS9 demo. One of the thing I regularly do is save TV programs to DVD but first cut out the adverts. So I thought I'd try this with VS9 having played with the effects etc. I'm used to using Nero which works ok but has poor sound tools so it is impossible to do sound fades.

But what I found was when I did a cut then preveiwed to see how the project played across the cut it took about 9s to start. It nero it starts instantly. I also tried a similar test with a avi DV1 capture. That took 7s so it's not the fact it was an mpeg. The avi was 20min, the mpeg 65min.

Is this normal? In Nero (NVE3) I click and it starts straight away. I don't see VS9 as being usable if it takes that long each time to preview a cut.

Also, I understand that you can't save DVD menu setups etc. Is that right?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 8:11 pm

Yes, it is normal for VS9 to take a little time to compose the full project playback, though how long will depend on a few things: how long the project is, how fast your computer is and whether you have set File > Preferences > General > Playack Method > to 'Instant Playback' instead of 'High Quality Playback. I assume you are talking about playback in Project mode, rather than Clip mode which should, in fact, be near instantaneous...

And I am sorry if I sound harsh, but you can't be serious when you say that if this is normal behaviour, then the program is unusable. OK, there may be programs out there which do things differently. I have never used Nero for this purpose, so can't make a valid comparison myself. But I am currently trying out the trial version of Adobe Premiere 2.0 and it only seems to have one playback method which is pretty near instantaneous too. But the fact that it can do this certainly doesn't turn me off VS9, which I still believe to be an excellent program. And certainly I don't regard a few seconds in an overall editing process which can take literally hours to complete, as being unduly onerous, much less make the program unusable!!

As for saving menu set-ups, yes, the program can save them, but in this case I would have to say that I think it is a significant program deficiency that all versions of VS I have used since VS7, use the same klutzy method. Once you have finished setting up your menu the way you want, you actually have to close down the burning module, at which point the program asks whether you want to save what you were doing. Naturally, you answer yes. (Normally, of course, you would only get this message when you closed the module after burning your disc or making your ISO or Video_TS folder, but if you want to be sure, you do it beforehand.) You then have to re-open the module and proceed to burning. But of course, this process also takes several seconds, so that probably compounds the programs unusability!!!

malc · Post by **malc** » Sat Jan 28, 2006 10:32 pm

I'm glad to hear there is a work around for the DVD menu issue.

I do have instant playback selected. What I am trying to do is edit to make as seamless a cut between scenes as possible, not the perhaps more usual home movie situation where you have one long scene then some transition to the next scene, a wipe for instance. That means I want to make the cut, then play from end of scene 1 over the cut to scene 2 start to see what the effect is like. And if I don't like it do it again. In that situation 7s is an unworkable delay. I've used Nero in the past and that has 0 delay so I don't understand why VS9 is so slow.

BTW I have just downloaded Power Director 5, tried the same file, same cut, and found that PD5 plays instantly.

I assume that if I want to see play back through the cut I have to use project mode, or is there a better way?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 1:20 am

No -- it has to be Project mode for playback of more than one clip. What more can I say about the delay...?

And yes, Power Director seems a fine program, and yes, the 'movie' mode playback (equivalent to VS9 Project mode) is near instantaneous. I have it and thought it might even be a good substitute for VS9.

But I have not found a way of being able to display frames in the timeline -- nothing in the manual, and all I get is the first frame followed by a solid colour for the rest of the clip. Unless you have found a way of showing all frames (and if so, I'd be most grateful to learn how), I would have thought that this would be even more frustrating for your undertaking which is heavily dependent on being able to see each frame so as to make a perfect cut.

BTW, I think Power Director's transitions are better than VS9, both in the available transitions themselves and also in the smoothness with which they behave in the actual transition between clips. And that goes for both video and audio channels.

My only other gripe, though, is that when I do play back in movie/project mode, I cannot get my voiceovers to play, though they are rock-standard .WAV format, and which happily play by themselves in Power Director. If I could get around these two -- to me -- significant problems, I would seriously think of using Power Director all the time... Mind you, I am currently giving the trial of Adobe Premiere Pro 2 a whirl, and I think I am falling in love!!!

malc · Post by **malc** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:59 am

I haven't tried voice in PD5. I have found that if you click on the time bar and mouse left/right you can expand/contract the time scale around the current cursor postion. At max the graduations are each frame. Moving the cursor along now shows a frame at a time in the preview window.

I'm use to working that way rather than a film strip frame by frame view. I suppose the advantage is that the time line covers more frames and you can zoom in and out the timebar. In Nero (and VS9) I tend to use the time counter, first skipping minutes, then seconds, then frames as I narrow in on the cut point.

I'm was going to give Adobe premier elements a try, a 1G download!, but I have a Athlon XP and you have to have AMD Opteron or Athlon 64 (or Pentium 4) so I have to upgrade my PC just to try it!

I've also tried the chroma key in PD5 with the girl on the green screen from VS9 to be fair. The results were not impressive. Either it cut out parts of the girl or left green bits in. Changing the tolerance seems to widen all RGB values. What it needs is separate hue and intensity sliders. I couldn't get it to take light and dark green (i.e. shadowed green) without taking some of the girl too. I suppose if you lit the green screen correctly you could get it to work but I was dissapointed. I know chroma key is a frivalous and I probably never use it but it was dissapointing that it didn't work as well.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 11:02 am

No -- I knew about expanding the timeline and using the cursor to show frame by frame, but unlike you, I like to see each frame in the timeline.

I am also surprised you had trouble with Chroma in PD5 -- works like a charm for me. And I am afraid I don't agree that it is frivolous. I use it all the time for video (i.e. moving) titles with a transparent background to overlay over the opening (and closing) scenes of my videos...

As for Premiere Elements, I have PE 1.0 but haven't yet tried the new 2.0 -- I am using the full Pro 2 version, and as I say, I am impressed. Since I like PE 1, I am sure I would also like PE 2. But I seem to be able to handle Pro 2 better than I could handle Pro 1.5 or PE 1, so I might just ditch everything else. I quite like Ulead's Media Studio Pro 8, but have had a recent strange occurrence (7 clips, all captured from the same analogue tape at the same time, thus all with the same properties, all edited exactly the same, project properties the same, Share > Create Video File properties the same, yet 6 came oiut perfect, and the seventh -- which I produced several times just in case -- simply never worked. In the end, I started a new project in VS9 using the same video, the same voice overs etc, and it came out perfect. Go figure. But it put a kind of a question mark over MSP 8 for me...)

malc · Post by **malc** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:25 pm

Good point about chroma key. I wasn't think about titles which I suspect PD5 would handle ok. I was playing with overlaying the video of the girl which is a bit frivalous although I suppose there are times when superimposing one video on another would be useful. I would think PD5 would handle ok any chroma key where the background was a solid constant colour and constant intensity. The problem is the girl on the green screen doesn't meet that. Titles and frames would be ok.

The other contender to try is Pinacle I guess but there doesn't seem to be a demo version of that available as far as I can see.

Post by **Ken Berry** » Sun Jan 29, 2006 9:33 pm

PD5 handles Chroma just fine. No, my problems are the ones I have already mentioned.

I have a copy of Pinnacle Studio 10 (and also Liquid Edition 6). I have not managed to get Studio to work properly (I am in a big crowd there). Liquid seems a fine program, by contrast, but to me seems to have an even steeper learning curve than, say, Adobe Premiere Pro or Vegas...

malc · Post by **malc** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 10:51 am

Pinacle tell me there will be a demo version of the studio 10 out in Feb so I might try that. I've read it was not very stable too. Pinacle tell me that 10.2 has fixed this.

BTW have you tried www.puremotion.com. It has a frame view I think, like you like. The chroma key with the girl worked better for me than it did in PD5. The audio channels have a view function too like PD5. You have have to turn it on in the view menu though otherwise you just have the rubber band function like VS9.

Do you know if there are any plugins available for PD5 (e.g. like vst's can be added to VS9)?

I also wondered if I could clean up the green background of the girl video to get better results in PD5. Any suggestions? Do you know of a suitable filter for VideoDub?

Post by **Ken Berry** » Mon Jan 30, 2006 8:53 pm

Thanks for the info. But no, I don't know anything about plug-ins for PD5. I only started using the program a couple of weeks ago. Not sure what I can say about Chroma either. I just use the defaults in the program!