Alright fellow luvies
Being in my 30's i come from an age where vhs was queen and svhs was king..the quality was unsurpassed..and the fact that my ole' reliable ( no matter how many times i swung it on ropes and the like to get 'the right effect' ) Panasonic mc90 was always up for the challange...aaahhh memories of using those 2..yes TWO titles i could store in memory ....so anyways bring this post slap bang up to date..finally purchased a 3ccd panasonic camcorder..a reasonable buy..even if the indoor conditions leave a lot to be desire...what has impressed me is uleadvideostudio9...all the effects..blue screen no less..and it works...it works a treat.
My question and hence reason for this long winded thread... can someone please explain to me..to us ( cant believe im the only one out there )..in plain english...for me to record the best quality i can via dv to dvd...do i need a good soundcard, graphic card, etc etc....whats all this about ulead coping to dvd via mpeg2.....is this the best it can get? can i tweak things a little..no point in me spending my time doing projects only for me to realise a year later that had i bought so and so...the quality would be better. A decent...easy..yet not too easy...website in getting started with editing etc...any good ones youve come across..or even other intresting threads.
And while i think about it..might as well kill two birds with one stone. I have a large number of vhs, svhs movies ( all classics i add ) which i now want to improve on with all this fancy titles etc....well, whats the best poss way i can input my old vhs stuff into videostudio..and..heres the rub....can i somehow delete my soundtrack..not the voices but the music ( typical 80's ..needs to go ) ...is it possible to seperate this soundtrack.
APOLOGIES for creating a long post around nothing. I ramble i admit. But i would appreciate a responce.
Cheers
Any good websites where i might find other amateur projects using videostudio..checking out the competition you see!
g
the quest for the perfect answer ( beginners guide to dv )
Moderator: Ken Berry
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Ken Berry
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As far as using VS9 is concerned, a good starting point is the Recommended Procedures sticky post at the very top of the list of posts to the Board. But a more general site, which contains more than anyone would ever need (or want?) to know about videos and DVDs etc, is to be found at http://www.videohelp.com/ An excellent site.
I am not sure what you mean by "whats all this about ulead coping to dvd via mpeg2". Apart from a very few stand-alone DVD players which can currently play DVDs made with mpeg-4 videos, the DVD video standard _IS_ mpeg-2. You can't avoid it.
The guy who wrote the Recommended Procedures post is personally a fan of capturing from digital video cameras direct to mpeg-2s in a DVD compliant format, doing his edits in that format, and then producing his DVDs. But I think he also acknowledges that for a lot of people out there, particularly those who do not have high powered computers, direct capture to mpeg-2 is a particularly demanding process. (There is a separate debate as to whether, and if so, how far, mpeg-2 is really a format which should be edited or re-encoded many times, but I won't go into that.)
Anyway, it is for this reason, that the recommended procedure is first to capture from your digital video camera in a format which is identical to the quality of the original mini DV tape, and that, naturally enough, is the DV format. (People with cameras which use mini DVDs or hard drives, or the very few which film in mpeg-4, will of course have to use other methods of transferring their video to computer.) DV is a format/codec developed by Microsoft especially for this purpose. And though it is a huge format (one hour of video takes about 13 GB), it is nonetheless a compressed version of the AVI format which, in its uncompressed form, takes up a whopping 65 GB per hour. It also has the advantage of being able to be edited and 're-encoded' many times without losing quality (and so is known as a non-lossy format)
Anyway, you capture in DV format, then do all your edits in that: cutting, re-arranging, adding titles, transitions, voice-overs and background music etc. And it is only then, when you are satisfied with the way your project now looks, that you convert the DV format project to one that can be burned to DVD -- namely, mpeg-2. To do this, you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD. Here you may have to vary the default properties of the format to change, say, the bitrate to maintain as far as is possible in this conversion process, the highest quality, or else to fit as much video as possible on a disc. Broadly speaking, you can fit about one hour of very high quality video onto a single layer (4.3 GB) DVD at a maximum bitrate of 8000 kbps; around 90 minutes at good quality using 6000 kbps; and around 2 hours of reasonable quality at 4000 kbps. You can fit a bit more video on a disc also if you use one of the more compressed audio formats such as Dolby or mpeg layer 2 audio.
Anyway, you give your new mpeg-2 file a name, and start the conversion process. This will take time -- and depending on how powerful your computer is, it could take a lot of time. My own computer, for instance (you can see the specifications by clicking on the System button below), takes anything from between 1.2 to 1.5 times real time for such a conversion process, but others report up to 4 times or more real time. So you have to be patient. But eventually you will have a fully DVD compliant mpeg-2 file or set of files which you can now burn to DVD (Share > Create Disc > DVD). In this, make sure you click on 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' in the little cogwheel icon at the bottom left of the burning screen.
As for capturing your old VHS masterpieces, the above still applies, but with some limitations. First, you need a device which captures from an analogue source. Ideally, the device should be able to capture in DV format, but the possibilities for this are limited. There are some high-end stand-alone devices which allow this (the Plextor range for instance), but they are expensive (around US$300+). Another possibility is to link your analogue camera or VCR through their S-video or RCA composite connections to your new Panasonic digital camera, if this allows pass-through. That way the analogue signal is converted in the Panasonic to DV which is then transmitted via Firewire to the computer. (I personally have a Sony which allows this, and also will play my old 8mm Handycam travel tapes directly to the computer in DV format.)
But most people will be limited to using either a stand-alone analogue capture device or internal capture card which costs a lot less, but will only allow capture in formats other than DV. One that captures direct to good quality mpeg-2 is what you should be aiming for with these, if you think your computer is up to the job of such a demanding capture. I also have a Winfast DV2000 internal card which does an excellent job, though there are a myriad of other similar products out there, some better than others. You might also want to look at the Hauppage range.
And yes, it is a simple matter to get rid of the original soundtrack -- either by simply using the VS9 mute button for that track, or by actually using the VS9 command to separate the video and audio tracks of the original, and then simply deleting the audio track. Both these commands can be found on the Edit screen of VS9 -- the mute button is at top left -- a loudspeaker icon with a cross through it. And the 'Split Audio' button is about half way down the left hand side of screen.
I am not sure what you mean by "whats all this about ulead coping to dvd via mpeg2". Apart from a very few stand-alone DVD players which can currently play DVDs made with mpeg-4 videos, the DVD video standard _IS_ mpeg-2. You can't avoid it.
The guy who wrote the Recommended Procedures post is personally a fan of capturing from digital video cameras direct to mpeg-2s in a DVD compliant format, doing his edits in that format, and then producing his DVDs. But I think he also acknowledges that for a lot of people out there, particularly those who do not have high powered computers, direct capture to mpeg-2 is a particularly demanding process. (There is a separate debate as to whether, and if so, how far, mpeg-2 is really a format which should be edited or re-encoded many times, but I won't go into that.)
Anyway, it is for this reason, that the recommended procedure is first to capture from your digital video camera in a format which is identical to the quality of the original mini DV tape, and that, naturally enough, is the DV format. (People with cameras which use mini DVDs or hard drives, or the very few which film in mpeg-4, will of course have to use other methods of transferring their video to computer.) DV is a format/codec developed by Microsoft especially for this purpose. And though it is a huge format (one hour of video takes about 13 GB), it is nonetheless a compressed version of the AVI format which, in its uncompressed form, takes up a whopping 65 GB per hour. It also has the advantage of being able to be edited and 're-encoded' many times without losing quality (and so is known as a non-lossy format)
Anyway, you capture in DV format, then do all your edits in that: cutting, re-arranging, adding titles, transitions, voice-overs and background music etc. And it is only then, when you are satisfied with the way your project now looks, that you convert the DV format project to one that can be burned to DVD -- namely, mpeg-2. To do this, you go to Share > Create Video File > DVD. Here you may have to vary the default properties of the format to change, say, the bitrate to maintain as far as is possible in this conversion process, the highest quality, or else to fit as much video as possible on a disc. Broadly speaking, you can fit about one hour of very high quality video onto a single layer (4.3 GB) DVD at a maximum bitrate of 8000 kbps; around 90 minutes at good quality using 6000 kbps; and around 2 hours of reasonable quality at 4000 kbps. You can fit a bit more video on a disc also if you use one of the more compressed audio formats such as Dolby or mpeg layer 2 audio.
Anyway, you give your new mpeg-2 file a name, and start the conversion process. This will take time -- and depending on how powerful your computer is, it could take a lot of time. My own computer, for instance (you can see the specifications by clicking on the System button below), takes anything from between 1.2 to 1.5 times real time for such a conversion process, but others report up to 4 times or more real time. So you have to be patient. But eventually you will have a fully DVD compliant mpeg-2 file or set of files which you can now burn to DVD (Share > Create Disc > DVD). In this, make sure you click on 'Do not convert compliant MPEG files' in the little cogwheel icon at the bottom left of the burning screen.
As for capturing your old VHS masterpieces, the above still applies, but with some limitations. First, you need a device which captures from an analogue source. Ideally, the device should be able to capture in DV format, but the possibilities for this are limited. There are some high-end stand-alone devices which allow this (the Plextor range for instance), but they are expensive (around US$300+). Another possibility is to link your analogue camera or VCR through their S-video or RCA composite connections to your new Panasonic digital camera, if this allows pass-through. That way the analogue signal is converted in the Panasonic to DV which is then transmitted via Firewire to the computer. (I personally have a Sony which allows this, and also will play my old 8mm Handycam travel tapes directly to the computer in DV format.)
But most people will be limited to using either a stand-alone analogue capture device or internal capture card which costs a lot less, but will only allow capture in formats other than DV. One that captures direct to good quality mpeg-2 is what you should be aiming for with these, if you think your computer is up to the job of such a demanding capture. I also have a Winfast DV2000 internal card which does an excellent job, though there are a myriad of other similar products out there, some better than others. You might also want to look at the Hauppage range.
And yes, it is a simple matter to get rid of the original soundtrack -- either by simply using the VS9 mute button for that track, or by actually using the VS9 command to separate the video and audio tracks of the original, and then simply deleting the audio track. Both these commands can be found on the Edit screen of VS9 -- the mute button is at top left -- a loudspeaker icon with a cross through it. And the 'Split Audio' button is about half way down the left hand side of screen.
Ken Berry
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PeterMilliken
- Posts: 264
- Joined: Sun Dec 12, 2004 9:03 pm
- Location: Sydney, Australia
Hi Gary,
You don't mention which model Panasonic you have, but to emphasis a portion of Ken's advice, if your camera has pass-thru' (I just checked the GS75 and it doesn't appear to) then I would highly recommend you go that route for capturing your VHS stuff.
My father purchased a Pinnacle system (some years ago now) that included Liquid Edition 5, a high performance graphics card and analog capture device - in total he paid $2000 AUD. He was never able to successfully capture his old analog VHS-C movies with it. He continually experienced audio/video sync problems. He trialled the pass thru' capability of my MX-300 (Panasonic 3-CCD circa 2001) and immediately went out and purchased a Sony with pass thru (the current Panasonic 3-CCD range wasn't available then, so the Sony was more in his price range) and hasn't looked back since doing so.
Otherwise I have no other direct experience with analog capture devices. If you don't have pass thru' then perhaps somebody could recommend a product which they have used successfully?
Good luck,
Peter
You don't mention which model Panasonic you have, but to emphasis a portion of Ken's advice, if your camera has pass-thru' (I just checked the GS75 and it doesn't appear to) then I would highly recommend you go that route for capturing your VHS stuff.
My father purchased a Pinnacle system (some years ago now) that included Liquid Edition 5, a high performance graphics card and analog capture device - in total he paid $2000 AUD. He was never able to successfully capture his old analog VHS-C movies with it. He continually experienced audio/video sync problems. He trialled the pass thru' capability of my MX-300 (Panasonic 3-CCD circa 2001) and immediately went out and purchased a Sony with pass thru (the current Panasonic 3-CCD range wasn't available then, so the Sony was more in his price range) and hasn't looked back since doing so.
Otherwise I have no other direct experience with analog capture devices. If you don't have pass thru' then perhaps somebody could recommend a product which they have used successfully?
Good luck,
Peter
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heinz-oz
Same here, around 2000-2001 I forked out A$ 900.- for a DVICO analog capture card. In short, it was a pain to use with the time lag you got between what was captured and what was shown in the source window and sound was never really in sync but drifted out further and further depending on how long the clip was running for.
During my discussions with tech support for this card and them actually replacing my card with a new one, which by then only cost about half of what I had paid originally, I also learned in a different forum that DV camcorders can be used for analog through to AVI. My camcorder at the time, PANASONIC DA1 didn't have that feature, prompting me to buy a cheap little Panasonic that had that feature. Didn't cost me more than what I originally paid for a useless capture card but worked like a charm. Later on I replaced that one with the new GS 400 3CCD and never even tried the replacement card I got from DVICO although, I believe, it works.
I would only capture to mpeg if I convert a VHS tape as is, no additional editing required. If any editing is needed, I capture to DV-AVI through the camcorder, do my editing and finally convert to DVD compliant mpeg for burning.
During my discussions with tech support for this card and them actually replacing my card with a new one, which by then only cost about half of what I had paid originally, I also learned in a different forum that DV camcorders can be used for analog through to AVI. My camcorder at the time, PANASONIC DA1 didn't have that feature, prompting me to buy a cheap little Panasonic that had that feature. Didn't cost me more than what I originally paid for a useless capture card but worked like a charm. Later on I replaced that one with the new GS 400 3CCD and never even tried the replacement card I got from DVICO although, I believe, it works.
I would only capture to mpeg if I convert a VHS tape as is, no additional editing required. If any editing is needed, I capture to DV-AVI through the camcorder, do my editing and finally convert to DVD compliant mpeg for burning.
Hey Gary,
It's maybe a little long winded, but if the camcorder does not have a pass thru feature then you might simply record the VHS footage directly to the camcorder - if it has some analogue inputs. Then capture the footage to the pc in the usual way, with a firewire cable.
A program such as Audacity might be used to filter the unwanted 80's music off the soundtrack - but you'll need some fancy video filter to get rid of the flares and bad hair!
If you were looking for the highest possible video picture quality, the video bitrate can actually go up to 8264 kbps when using LPCM audio, or 9800 kbps for compressed audio (Dolby or Mpeg) but such high bitrates would be a little wasted on VHS source material.
Have fun!
It's maybe a little long winded, but if the camcorder does not have a pass thru feature then you might simply record the VHS footage directly to the camcorder - if it has some analogue inputs. Then capture the footage to the pc in the usual way, with a firewire cable.
A program such as Audacity might be used to filter the unwanted 80's music off the soundtrack - but you'll need some fancy video filter to get rid of the flares and bad hair!
If you were looking for the highest possible video picture quality, the video bitrate can actually go up to 8264 kbps when using LPCM audio, or 9800 kbps for compressed audio (Dolby or Mpeg) but such high bitrates would be a little wasted on VHS source material.
Have fun!
JVC GR-DV3000u Panasonic FZ8 VS 7SE Basic - X2
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gary
Thank you all for your very informative replies. When i get better chance ( work gets in the way! ) i intend on re-reading your replies and visiting your recommened websites / threads.
Im sure the answers to my problems and future problems! all lie in these pages somewhere.
The camcorder i bought ( after a lot of humming and aaahhhhing was the Panasonic NV-GS200 ( dont laugh..im on a budget! my heyday with camcorders was back in 1990 when i got my Panasonic 90, for the whopping sum of 1200pound!!) - cant say im overly impressed with the results of my new camcorder especially after all the hype i read about the 3ccd chips but it'll do for a start..afterall its the ideas that count not the quality! )
Thanks again for the replies.
G
Im sure the answers to my problems and future problems! all lie in these pages somewhere.
The camcorder i bought ( after a lot of humming and aaahhhhing was the Panasonic NV-GS200 ( dont laugh..im on a budget! my heyday with camcorders was back in 1990 when i got my Panasonic 90, for the whopping sum of 1200pound!!) - cant say im overly impressed with the results of my new camcorder especially after all the hype i read about the 3ccd chips but it'll do for a start..afterall its the ideas that count not the quality! )
Thanks again for the replies.
G
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heinz-oz
I know exactly how you feel. 3 CCD's are better than one, as long as they are the same size. My old DA1 has a 1/3" chip and the GS 400 has 3 x 1/4.5" chip. Picture clarity is still better with the old one but color fidelity is better with the GS 400. Unfortunately, one can rarely have his/her cake and eat itgary wrote:Thank you all for your very informative replies. When i get better chance ( work gets in the way! ) i intend on re-reading your replies and visiting your recommened websites / threads.
Im sure the answers to my problems and future problems! all lie in these pages somewhere.
The camcorder i bought ( after a lot of humming and aaahhhhing was the Panasonic NV-GS200 ( dont laugh..im on a budget! my heyday with camcorders was back in 1990 when i got my Panasonic 90, for the whopping sum of 1200pound!!) - cant say im overly impressed with the results of my new camcorder especially after all the hype i read about the 3ccd chips but it'll do for a start..afterall its the ideas that count not the quality! )
Thanks again for the replies.
G
Your GS 200 has 3 x 1/16" if I remember correctly. Nothing flash but still a lot better than the other small camcorders with just one chip of 1/16"
I daubt that you would be able to buy a better camera for the price of this one but, for a little less could do a lot worse.