16 Bit and 12 Bit Audio Conflict

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soccerman
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16 Bit and 12 Bit Audio Conflict

Post by soccerman »

I have captured (as an avi file via firewire into VS8) some DV footage from a Mini-DV tape whereby some of it was recorded with 48,000khz 16 Bit Stereo (DV Audio - PAL) properties and another part of the footage has 32,000khz 12 Bit Stereo (DV Audio - PAL) properties.

I am now trying to convert the whole avi file to an mpeg file, but the resulting audio on the mpeg file comes out slow, distorted/out of synch, obviously because of the different properties in the initial avi file.
I have tried saving the captured avi file as both 16 Bit 48,000 and 12 Bit 32,000 but the result is the same.

I am therefore wondering how I can get round this and what the simplest solution is ?
(Probably a silly question ?! :oops: )

BTW, I use TMPGEnc 3.0 XPress to encode my avi files to mpeg.
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Post by Ken Berry »

If all you have is one enormous AVI file, but with different audio properties on it, then my first thought is that the change in audio could not have happened in the middle of a filming session. You would have to have stopped at some stage, clicked on the camera's menu button, changed the settings, and then filmed some more. In other words, there will be a logical scene break or breaks coinciding with the changes in audio settings.

I would have thought it, therefore, a simple matter to simply cut your AVI into several parts, coinciding with the different scenes in question, and edit them separately. You might then have to render them all into individual DVD-compliant mpeg-2s, all hopefully now with exactly the same properties.

If you wanted to join them up again into one continuous file, you could simply start a new project, add your smaller edited mpeg-2s, and add transitions between them. Then you would add titles, voiceovers, background music Share > Create Video File > DVD again, with Smart Render switched on. All things being equal, only the new edits will be rendered -- though I confess I am not totally sure whether continuous background music, for instance, would require a total re-render of the constituent mpeg-2s. (You will be aware of the debate between those who say you should not edit mpeg-2s much if at all, and those who say you can happily edit and even render several times without perceptible drop in quality as long as the original quality of the files is high.)

In addition, when burning to DVD, make sure you have checked the box in the cogwheel icon in the bottom left of the burning screen which says 'Do not convert compliant mpeg files'. That should at least ensure that your files will not be rendered yet again at this stage of the process.
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Post by DVDDoug »

Can you re-capture the video as two files? I believe the file header contains the format infomation, so the software doesn't know about the mid-file format change.


Hopefully, each file would then have correct-matching header information. If this works, there shouldn't be a problem when the files are spliced together with a video editor... in theory. :?
[size=92][i]Head over heels,
No time to think.
It's like the whole world's
Out of... sync.[/i]
- Head Over Heels, The Go-Gos.[/size]
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Post by TubaDad »

When you recapture the file, which I think is going to be your best option, you can set the scene detect on so that it separates the clips for you. then you can put them all together to create the single large file if that is your ultimate goal.

I do believe VS8 has the scene detect when capturing, it has been a while since I used 8.
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soccerman
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Post by soccerman »

Doug, where you say the 'file header', I assume you mean the 'properties' ?
I have tried re-capturing the video as two separate files, albeit then putting them in the same Project to combine the two as one avi file...to then convert to mpeg. VS8 then asks 'do you want to change the project settings to match the video properties so that VS can perform SmartRender ?', and of course whatever I choose causes a conflict.

Ken says [quote="Ken Berry"]I would have thought it, therefore, a simple matter to simply cut your AVI into several parts, coinciding with the different scenes in question, and edit them separately. You might then have to render them all into individual DVD-compliant mpeg-2s, all hopefully now with exactly the same properties.
quote]

I suspected that this might be the best way of getting round it.

I use DVD Movie Factory 3 to create my DVD's, so I presume that can cope with combining two mpeg's ?
I have not tried that before, but I know that I will have to careful not to exceed the combined 4.4GB limit when rendering each mpeg in TMPGEnc. I should be safe with the audio as it would have been converted to LPCM.

BTW, the footage on the same tape was captured using two different cameras. I use a Canon XM2 which I set for 16 Bit, but another cameraman was using a cheap palmcorder thingy which only does 12 Bit. I needed his footage though.
Sorry Ken, I should have mentioned that.
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Post by TubaDad »

Your test sure ruled out my idea.
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Post by Ken Berry »

Yes, MF3 is up to the job. And having the footage done on different cameras changes nothing -- only makes it easier to identify which parts were done by each camera, I would imagine! :lol:
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Post by soccerman »

Yes, just to explain a little further, the footage is of four separate soccer matches (or 'football' as we call it here in the UK !).
Each match consists of 20 minutes highlights which already include titles, slo-mo's, transitions, etc., so I haven't got to worry about doing any further editing.
I therefore know exactly where the four 'starting points' of each match are without having to use scene detect.
It's just a case of getting all the footage from the Mini-DV into my laptop (using VS8 as the capture mechanism), converting it to an mpeg file and creating a DVD (with menu & chapters) in MF3. As simple as that...once I have got the audio right.
The first three matches have 12 Bit 32,000khz audio and the fourth match has 16 Bit 48,000 audio.

Looks like I have enough tips here to get it sorted though.
Thanks fellas. :D
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