Alternative B&W Processing

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grcolts
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Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

I use ASP (have not yet upgraded to ASP2) but will in the near future for most of my PP needs.
Currently, I am working with black and white images and am wondering if there is a better alternative than ASP? I have heard Light Zone or Dark Table may be better for working with monochrome?
Anyone using these programs care to comment? Or, are there other alternatives for developing better black and white images?
BTW, I am using a Mac with Maverick as the OS.
Thanks!
GR
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by herman »

When your camera body is supported you could try DxO with their filmpack.
Their film-look, be it B&W or color film, is IMO the best there is with the least amount of "user input", dragging sliders etc.
Once you have found your favorite "look" store it in a preset and apply that as a starting point to your other images.
It is my number 1 raw processor for 10 years now, I only use ASP for those occasions where I need layers or some local edits.
Enjoy!

Herman.
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by hannes_hab »

regards Hannes
austria

Nikon D7000 + D70, Nikon P6000, Nikon P330 (use P7800) PanasonicTZ100, Vuescan
bibble 4, bibble 5, ASP mostly on Ubuntu 14.04 ( sometimes Suse Linux 11.4 or WIN10)
grcolts
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

herman wrote:When your camera body is supported you could try DxO with their filmpack.
Their film-look, be it B&W or color film, is IMO the best there is with the least amount of "user input", dragging sliders etc.
Once you have found your favorite "look" store it in a preset and apply that as a starting point to your other images.
It is my number 1 raw processor for 10 years now, I only use ASP for those occasions where I need layers or some local edits.
Thanks, I will check it out.

GR
grcolts
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

hannes_hab wrote:you tried all B&W Plugins?
http://www.aftershotpro.com/de/plugins/ ... html#tab=3

Yes, I have tried some of them for ASP; however, if I upgrade to ASP2 most are not yet available.
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by hannes_hab »

all plugins work with the 32bit version of ASP2
(all except "Texa" as far as I know)
see also:
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53597
regards Hannes
austria

Nikon D7000 + D70, Nikon P6000, Nikon P330 (use P7800) PanasonicTZ100, Vuescan
bibble 4, bibble 5, ASP mostly on Ubuntu 14.04 ( sometimes Suse Linux 11.4 or WIN10)
TheDude
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by TheDude »

grcolts wrote:I have heard Light Zone or Dark Table may be better for working with monochrome?
I moved to darktable (in general, not only for b&w), which provide several ways for b&w processing.
In case you don't just want to pull down the saturation, you can use for example the following modules: channel mixer, color areas, monochrome.
It depends on the image, which way works best. Give it a try.
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by afx »

Nostalgia still works in 32bit AS2.
Much cheaper than DxO and other commercial packages with easily the same results.

And for quick work on an already adjusted color image, nothing beats Silikon Bonk (the name describes it already, it is Bernd's professional experience put into silicone).

Having said that, I also use the LR color adjustments in BW with a bit of clarity and contrast to achieve nice results. The more I work with digital BW, the less rely on plugins.

cheers
afx
Send bugs to the Monkey // AfterShot Kickstart Guide // sRGB clipping sucks and Adobe RGB is just as bad
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by dsigman »

Check out Topaz B&W Effects.
grcolts
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

hannes_hab wrote:all plugins work with the 32bit version of ASP2
(all except "Texa" as far as I know)
see also:
http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=53597

Question, if one purchases the 32bit version of ASP2, can you later freely switch to 64 bit when more plug-ins become available?

GR
grcolts
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

TheDude wrote:
grcolts wrote:I have heard Light Zone or Dark Table may be better for working with monochrome?
I moved to darktable (in general, not only for b&w), which provide several ways for b&w processing.
In case you don't just want to pull down the saturation, you can use for example the following modules: channel mixer, color areas, monochrome.
It depends on the image, which way works best. Give it a try.
Ok, I did download DarkTable and am now trying to figure it out.
It is not as difficult to use as I have heard others say it is. The layout is familiar to me, there are just lots of options in modules that is going to take some time to learn. However, I see the basic modules are pretty easy to find and put to use. I am really surprised at how much Dark Table offers for free. And, it is fast on my Mac; almost as fast as ASP. The Lightroom images seem to me to have a glitch when scrolling through them, it becomes jittery. I hope to test out its black and white capabilities soon.
Comparing it to ASP, ASP does have quicker access to controls, plus it has a slide view program I use a lot, whereas Dark Table does not seem to offer this feature. Certainly, I am more familiar with ASP controls. Anyway, much to learn! Thanks for your input on Dark Table!

GR
grcolts
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

afx wrote:Nostalgia still works in 32bit AS2.
Much cheaper than DxO and other commercial packages with easily the same results.

And for quick work on an already adjusted color image, nothing beats Silikon Bonk (the name describes it already, it is Bernd's professional experience put into silicone).

Having said that, I also use the LR color adjustments in BW with a bit of clarity and contrast to achieve nice results. The more I work with digital BW, the less rely on plugins.

cheers
afx
Yes, I did check out DxO and it does cost a bit for sure. I have downloaded Dark Table and am learning how to use it. ASP is a familiar program as I started using it when it was Bibble. I have tried the new trial version of ASP2 64bit and basically liked it, especially its new found speed and stability. Other than a few other changes though, I did not see much else. It currently only offers access to a few plug-ins, and does not yet offer the HDR option. Plus, I had hoped to see changes in the highlight controls which I did not see. So, I decided to hold off just a bit to upgrade until at least a few of those issues are resolved. I did ask a question about if one can later switch to 64bit if one downloads the 32bit program of ASP2? If so, I might go ahead and bite the bullet on the program. There is a lot to be said about familiarity of using a program for getting things done. Until then, I will experiment with Dark Table and its b&w modules. Thanks for your input!

Thanks to everyone for all their inputs and suggestions. I really appreciated it!
Cheers!

GR
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by afx »

grcolts wrote:Question, if one purchases the 32bit version of ASP2, can you later freely switch to 64 bit when more plug-ins become available?
Sure.
I have installed them in parallel on all my boxes.

cheers
afx
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by FalCT60 »

grcolts wrote:
afx wrote:Nostalgia still works in 32bit AS2.
Much cheaper than DxO and other commercial packages with easily the same results.
.../...
afx
Yes, I did check out DxO and it does cost a bit for sure. I have downloaded Dark Table and am learning how to use it.
It's sad one has to search for other software when ASP might be so powerful and enough ! :shock:
I gave DT a try too, and unfortunately for me couldn't find anything better than in ASP. Even my lenses aren't calibrated in DT (except my 24-70 2.8 AFS, but ASP supports it too).
grcolts wrote:ASP is a familiar program as I started using it when it was Bibble. I have tried the new trial version of ASP2 64bit and basically liked it, especially its new found speed and stability. Other than a few other changes though, I did not see much else. It currently only offers access to a few plug-ins, and does not yet offer the HDR option.
May I ? Well, I think the HDR as proposed in ASP is nothing more than a big frustrating joke ! They ought to make it a plugin, not a standalone program with almost no relation with ASP !
The way it has to be used as of today is painful : one has to invoke an external program (even if from inside ASP) that does its whole job outside and regardless to ASP, then saves a jpg as a result. :roll:
Then one has to load the picture and hope work on it ? But the chain was broken at its source, what can one expect from that ?
I hope corel will make it part of ASP as a plugin and insert it into the pipe, so one can apply any effect afterwards with no quality loss. But, first, let them fix the many bugs ans shortcomings that prevent ASP from being as efficient as it ought to (demosaizing, printing on linux, HighLights recovery, keywords management, etc.). Then, they can offer us extra functions.

J.-L.
grcolts
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Re: Alternative B&W Processing

Post by grcolts »

Yes, I did check out DxO and it does cost a bit for sure. I have downloaded Dark Table and am learning how to use it.[/quote]
It's sad one has to search for other software when ASP might be so powerful and enough ! :shock:
I gave DT a try too, and unfortunately for me couldn't find anything better than in ASP. Even my lenses aren't calibrated in DT (except my 24-70 2.8 AFS, but ASP supports it too).
grcolts wrote:ASP is a familiar program as I started using it when it was Bibble. I have tried the new trial version of ASP2 64bit and basically liked it, especially its new found speed and stability. Other than a few other changes though, I did not see much else. It currently only offers access to a few plug-ins, and does not yet offer the HDR option.
May I ? Well, I think the HDR as proposed in ASP is nothing more than a big frustrating joke ! They ought to make it a plugin, not a standalone program with almost no relation with ASP !
The way it has to be used as of today is painful : one has to invoke an external program (even if from inside ASP) that does its whole job outside and regardless to ASP, then saves a jpg as a result. :roll:
Then one has to load the picture and hope work on it ? But the chain was broken at its source, what can one expect from that ?
I hope corel will make it part of ASP as a plugin and insert it into the pipe, so one can apply any effect afterwards with no quality loss. But, first, let them fix the many bugs ans shortcomings that prevent ASP from being as efficient as it ought to (demosaizing, printing on linux, HighLights recovery, keywords management, etc.). Then, they can offer us extra functions.

J.-L.[/quote]

Well, hopefully, the HDR will be tweaked to work better. HDR, for me, is little used so that is not a big deal breaker for me. It is fun to play with but is nothing I would use in my normal workflow. I have had a chance to play with Darktable and Light Zone. DT has lots of features for sure and I could see myself using some of those modules but the one problem I have had with it on my Mac is that the program locks up and I have to force quit the program. I even tried installing and reinstalling the program and ended up with the same results. There seems to be a bug in their light table section as this is where the program goes into a working mode and never leaves it. So, I have deleted the program from my HD. Light Zone on the other hand works very well. Not sure if I quite understand yet exactly how it works as I have not been able to get very pleasing results from it. The program looks like it would be very good for b&w as it uses the zone system. My problem right now, is figuring out how to tweak it to get the results I want. So far I have not been pleased with it. Certainly, LZ has capabilities but I don't see it replacing ASP by any means.
GR
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