KeithR Off topic posts II

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KeithR

KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by KeithR »

http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=48732

I'm sure that the people who feel similarly ticked off, lied to and thoroughly stiched up by Bibble and now Corel would not consider them "off topic", but valid observations from a long-standing paying customer who is at the end of his tether (and beyond) about the disgusting level of "service" he has been provided over the years.

Infantile as it is to single these posts out and then lock the thread, they all explicitly refer to real, ongoing issues that continue to be ignored by successive developers.

So - whichever of the mods was responsible for this juvenile behaviour (and I can guess who it was):

What - exactly - is off topic about them? Because I can back every single comment up with ease...

I'll say it again. I'm a paying customer, and you don't treat paying customers with legitimate and long-standing grievances this way.
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by grubernd »

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Off_topic
off-topic if it is not within the bounds of the current discussion
get it?
use the Monkey to report bugs - include as much precise information as you can provide!
Bibble since 2004 - lots of it in my public archive: http://bilder.grubernd.at
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by BrianCee »

but you didn't pay any of us Keith - we do not work for Corel - we have almost no contact with Corel.

We are all users of Corel products - just like you

We have all paid money to Corel - just like you

We all have had problems of some sort or another which is why we are here on the USER TO USER forums trying to help each other resolve problems which Corel will not or can not solve.

Continued bleating and complaining is not helping anyone - complain direct to Corel - they do not read posts on here.

Moderators and site admins give their time on these forums for free because we all want to help each other - not because we want to read constant aggressive complaints about Corel.

Whether you spend any more money on Corel products is entirely at your discretion - none of the users, moderators, or site Admins are going to lose any sleep over your move to another product.

It is not compulsory to post on these forums - if you are not happy about the way they are currently run please feel free to go to another forum
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by jknights »

As a long time user of Bibble, since November 2000, I dont feel that I have been let down by Bibble as they were bought out by Corel.
Similarly I feel that since Corel honoured my license with Bibble and gave me a copy of ASP that they have played fair as far as that goes.

As a beta tester for Bibble I feel that I have put a lot of effort into testing stuff and also suggesting changes. Some of these have been adopted other not. That is par for the course as not all 'my' ideas are good, suitable or workable.


What I do find dismaying is that the ASP product is being effectively strangled slowly by the inability to release new versions of ASP that support the latest cameras RAW formats.
Without this the product is stuck in time and is of little long term use.

If Corel staff dont read these forums then I suggest that this is actually poor practice.
Maybe they should allow the Corel ASP product manager about 30mins/day to review feedback posted here on the forum and for some limited but clear response to the some of the postings.
Still learning after all these years!
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by Hobgoblin »

jknights wrote:<snip>
If Corel staff dont read these forums then I suggest that this is actually poor practice.
Maybe they should allow the Corel ASP product manager about 30mins/day to review feedback posted here on the forum and for some limited but clear response to the some of the postings.
+1
R.
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by BrianCee »

As far as I know the product manager for ASP is Craig Copley (username cwcopley) and he has visited the forums and even posted occasionally but he certainly does not go through every post - forum records show that it is now two months since he last visited.
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by kaymann »

BrianCee wrote:As far as I know the product manager for ASP is Craig Copley (username cwcopley) and he has visited the forums and even posted occasionally but he certainly does not go through every post - forum records show that it is now two months since he last visited.
I find that very inappropriate/disturbing. It takes me ten minutes or less to read every new post. With PSPX5, now that is a different story, probably a half hour out of my day...
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by Quicksand »

BrianCee wrote:Continued bleating and complaining is not helping anyone - complain direct to Corel - they do not read posts on here.

Moderators and site admins give their time on these forums for free because we all want to help each other - not because we want to read constant aggressive complaints about Corel.

Whether you spend any more money on Corel products is entirely at your discretion - none of the users, moderators, or site Admins are going to lose any sleep over your move to another product.

It is not compulsory to post on these forums - if you are not happy about the way they are currently run please feel free to go to another forum
Brian, with all due respect I disagree COMPLETELY with this reasoning.

I think KeithR is fully justified, and this is exactly the place he should be posting.

Precisely BECAUSE this is a user-to-user forum his opinions need to be aired. Personally, I don't think ASP deserves any new users -- for all intents and purposes it's abandonware -- and if KeithR can spare potential new users any part of the heartbreak and frustration he and I have endured with Bibble and ASP, it's well worth it.

The magenta highlight bug has been frustrating and time-consuming to deal with. The deleting-the-wrong-raw-files bug apparently bit me many times -- and I didn't realize it until I went back into my archives to look for some original shots to reprocess. Sorry, they're long gone.

These bugs are simply inexcusable in a product aimed at professionals. The more users know about these bugs, and how the publisher simply fails to acknowledge or correct them over the course of YEARS, the better off those users will be. Hopefully they'll find a different product!

Forget Corel. They don't care about me, so why should I care about them?

I'm a Lightroom user now. I endure a Windows virtual machine in Linux to make that happen, and I'm much more satisfied for it.
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by BrianCee »

As users of Corel products all the moderators and admins are well aware of the highs and lows of Corel and it's products which is why we have always allowed forum members to complain and criticise the products - we have never removed or disallowed any such posts - witness the fact that all of KiethR's posts are still visible.

BUT - it is the way in which the comments are made which causes problems - repeated and aggressive posts are not helpful - and there is nothing we can do about it here, so why get angry or annoyed with other users - anyone who has a problem with the products they use are free to post all their problems and frustrations - but PLEASE in an accurate, detailed and controlled manner without repetition.
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by silvershoes »

KeithR wrote:but valid observations from a long-standing paying customer who is at the end of his tether (and beyond) about the disgusting level of "service" he has been provided over the years.

I'll say it again. I'm a paying customer, and you don't treat paying customers with legitimate and long-standing grievances this way.
Speaking as another "long-standing paying customer" - enough already.

I'm sorry, but you're not the only long-standing customer. It's not all about you.

If you feel you have a legitimate grievance, contact Corel directly. This eternal pity-party solves nothing, and it's a total pita to read. When it appears in thread after thread, it's annoying beyond belief. When it comes to airing gripes, once should be sufficient.

I come here for solutions and creative ideas, not to be held hostage by some prima donna. Please - if you're really so unhappy, go buy Adobe and see how much sympathy you'll get. (I can tell you right now - zero.)
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Re: KeithR Off topic posts II

Post by ormdig »

As regards KeithR's post and silvershoes reply.
FWIW. I was figuring out what I have spent on Bibble ($129.00), the update to ASP ($19.00) divided by years (4)=$37.00 a year. If I were to divide by images processed through Bibble/ASP (50,000+) we are talking peanuts. Actually peanuts are more expensive. I still use ASP as my main editor. I have stated before I don't use presets or defaults as I don't do enough controlled shooting to make it worthwhile. I only do 3 things to almost all files: turn on raw noise, turn off sharpening and adjust blacks or the highlight arrow if needed. However, I have learned in the time using this product how to quickly get an image in the ballpark to where I can tweak it to what I want. I have also learned to spot an image that will be outside of ASP's ability to edit to my satisfaction or that will need prior or subsequent help in another editor. What it boils down to is this, I enjoy using ASP, it is quite capable for the most part. All the other editors I use or have tried are not particularly fun or intuitive (at least to me) to use. So I can't justify the " I am a paying customer....." gripe because I have gotten a lot more out of this editor than I have put into it. I do see problems and am concerned about the lack of any substantial progress in solving them and the lack of any real communication as to what the future holds. New cameras are a real problem for many people and some of the bugs/needed improvements are obviously solvable because other programs have successfully done so.
What I have seen on these forums is an almost total secession of ideas and solutions to problems, as silvershoe has stated. I miss that. I shoot and look at an average of 3000 images a week. I don't really know how many I choose to edit but as I said I have 50,000+ saved jpegs and tiffs that have been edited so it is a fairly substantial number for an amateur hack. I go through a lot of processing for schools and individuals almost every week so in a sense I do have a workflow to manage. The ideas, discussions and what I think are some really neat plugins have helped me tremendously in learning, facilitating and I hope improving my work. It would be nice if Corel would ease the uncertainty, so to speak, so we could get back to doing what we obvously love to do, make images that we and others can look at and enjoy.
Pete
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