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What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Fri Jul 10, 2020 11:53 pm
by alanball
Hi,
I have just purchased a computer with my first SSD drive and a 2T HDD. The SSD drive is 480GB. I have read you should only use about 75% of the space on the SSD. I have no idea how much Windows, MS office, chrome and Videostudio take up when installed, but presumably it would be preferable to install VS on the SSD.
Any guidance would be appreciated.

Thanks

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 12:28 am
by Ken Berry
Alan -- I don't think you have anything to worry about in terms of space. VS 2020 takes up about 3 GB; MS Office 2020 takes up around 4.8 GB; and chrome around half a GB... Windows itself takes up 35 GB on my computer. So that will still leave you a whopping amount of a 480 GB SSD, especially since less important or less used programs could go on your 2 TB hard drive...

Though not my main computer, I also have an i7 laptop running Win 10, Chrome, VS in several versions, PSP and quite a few other programs. Its 500 GB SSD is still less than half full...

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 1:24 am
by tletter
alanball wrote:a computer with my first SSD drive and a 2T HDD. The SSD drive is 480GB.
The size of your SSD drive is fine for most people. Hence if you want to maximize VS performance then you should install your programs on the SSD, and put your active project source files on the SSD. The HDD can be used as storage for non-active project source files.
alanball wrote:I have read you should only use about 75% of the space on the SSD.
I wouldn't focus too much on space utilization unless it feels like SSD performance is dropping, in which case you could run a performance test, e.g. CrystalDiskMark, and compare the SSD's current performance vice that at time of installation.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 3:18 am
by RobertOZ
Alan,
My SSD has all my programs installed plus a heap of other crap and is still only using 142GB of space, although all project files and backup programs are stored on the HDD using a further 280GB

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:11 am
by alanball
Thanks guys, that has really put my mind at rest. :D :D

Thanks again

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:10 am
by Davidk
Alan,
To check the amount of space "free" on your C drive SSD:
- open windows explorer
- rt-click on C
- when the context menu opens, down the bottom of it there is a "properties" item. Left click on that. You should see a panel with the used and free space on that drive presented numerically and graphically.

As to why you read use up to 78%, it's associated with the technology of the memory used for these devices. The RAM cells used have a life expressed in the number of cycles (billions). To minimise 'usage' many devices have a built-in process to move content around so that no one section of memory is getting heavy usage and another has almost none at all. To do this obviously there needs to be some free memory available. You don't have to do anything for that to happen. Another thing you CAN do to help this is to disable the de-frag process in windows associated with the drive which is the SSD device. Since the memory of an SSD is basically RAM, you don't need de-fragging to ensure a good performance by making parts of particular files occupy consecutive sectors on the disk, which is necessary for good performance on a HDD drive. Generally, windows has de-frag enabled by default for the C drive. Open windows administrative tools/defrag and optimze drives and you get a panel like this
Disable de-frag C.jpg
taken whilst answering this post. And I just realized that I have not done that (turn off de-frag) since I upgraded to windows 10 2 weeks ago, so
- with the drive required highlighted (selected), select the optimise button and turn the schedule OFF
and you will see that the de-frag is turned off for the drive.

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 1:40 am
by tletter
Davidk wrote:As to why you read use up to 78%, it's associated with the technology of the memory used for these devices.
You appear to be referring to over-provisioning. However, for many modern SSDs, the minimum amount of over-provisioning for an SSD is built-in by the manufacturer and not accessible by the user. While you can increase the over-provisioning at the expense of usable space, keeping 22% of user accessible space for over-provisioning is much more than is generally recommended. In any event, check your manufacturer's documentation for over-provisioning recommendations.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 10:33 pm
by alanball
Thanks David for that extensive and interesting explanation. I will checkout that menue you have shown when I am up and running.

Thanks for your comments and input tletter there's an awful lot I need to learn and will check out the manufacturers specs as suggested.

I was also reading yesterday about the Windows Trim command. At age 80 the mind boggles trying to take it all in and keep up with tech!! :D

Thanks again everyone for all your help.

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 11:52 pm
by tletter
alanball wrote:I was also reading yesterday about the Windows Trim command.
On Windows 10, by default, TRIM is enabled on SSDs. However, if you want to check its status, enter the following at the Command Prompt and hit Enter:

fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify

If that command returns 0 (see below) then Trim is activated and working correctly.

C:\>fsutil behavior query DisableDeleteNotify
NTFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Disabled)
ReFS DisableDeleteNotify = 0 (Disabled)

Davidk wrote:Another thing you CAN do to help this is to disable the de-frag process in windows associated with the drive which is the SSD device.
SSDs will not be defragmented in Windows 10 since the OS will detect a SSD and turn off defragging. In fact, Windows won’t even let you defragment a SSD. The optimize drive function only TRIMs the SSD.
alanball wrote:At age 80 the mind boggles trying to take it all in and keep up with tech!!
Assuming that you're buying a pre-built system from a reputable seller, I wouldn't spend too much time drilling down into the tech nitty gritty, instead I'd concentrate on using your new tech to produce your desired outputs. That being said, one thing worthwhile considering is how you'll backup your valuable data in case it gets deleted/corrupted.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:13 am
by Davidk
tletter referred to over provisioning. One could think of that as having spare (un-allotted) memory to use when some of it goes bad: switch the bad out and good in. Much like having a spare tyre in your car. Continuing with the car analogy, moving content around in an SSD to minimise over-use of a section of cells isn't spare memory to use, but is like tyre rotation to equalise wear n tear over the whole set. The result is to prolong the life of the SSD unit. Both of those operations are functions of a dedicated chip embedded in the SSD: a user doesn't need to/ordinarily cannot do anything to help or hinder it.

What a user can do is minimise their usage of memory, and de=fragmenting an SSD is an operation affecting/using a large part of the drive memory that just isn't necessary with that technology. So don't do it.

Re tletter's comment about windows 10 detecting an SSD - yes it does. What it didn't do in my case was turn defrag off, and it ran at least one de-frag cycle a week after after the windows10 home update (the date on the operation in that captured screen above), and the feature was still turned on when I checked it last nite nearly 2 weeks after that. So systemic lag isn't an issue here. I only noted that when checking details for the post about turning defrag off. See my earlier post. This may or may not be a feature of the windows 10 version, but check it.

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:36 am
by alanball
A lot of info to digest, thanks both.

I will taken your advice tletter onboard about not getting to deep in the tech side and I do need to look at backup options. Can you advise on a suitable reliable but not too expensive a programe to backup both the SSD and HDD?

Thanks

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:37 am
by tletter
alanball wrote:Can you advise on a suitable reliable but not too expensive a programe to backup both the SSD and HDD?
As this isn't your first computer, why not use the same backup solution that you used before?

There is various free or inexpensive backup software available including cloud-based solutions, but you'll need to have somewhere to back it up to. So decide if you want to backup locally to an external storage device, or to the cloud.

A totally free software option would be to:
1. use Windows 10's system image tool, a.k.a. 'Backup and Restore (Windows 7)', to create a system image of your OS on your HDD or an external storage device.
2. use Windows 10's ROBOCOPY utility to backup all your user files on your SSD and HDD to an external storage device.

Obviously the external storage device must be of sufficient size and should be stored in a safe place apart from your PC.
Davidk wrote:What it didn't do in my case was turn defrag off, and it ran at least one de-frag cycle a week after after the windows10 home update (the date on the operation in that captured screen above)
Run optimize against your SSD and watch to see if it's defragging or TRIMing.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 8:54 am
by Davidk
On the matter of a backup location . .
Clearly you need one with enough space. Use explorer to get the use of storage totalled, and worst case, that will be what you need, per backup. You need to backup regularly and getting into a habit of doing that is 'good practice'. Just how often depends on your circumstances; if you do a lot of software installs/uninstalls trying out various new things, then frequently is a good description. If your PC doesn't change much over time, then once a month or a quarter may be a better fit.

Beware of the cloud; it's storage on the net and promoted as a 'save your life from anywhere' solution, but still in an age where internet speeds are asymmetric (download is a lot faster than upload, usually by a factor of 10 or more) your upload speed will be critical to a reasonable backup performance: the backup file will be saved on the internet somewhere. Just where depends on the supplier of the cloud service. And like most things, having one that's inaccessible, eg, the net is down, makes it useless. So even if you choose to use a cloud service, keep a copy locally somewhere (eg on an external drive).

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:04 pm
by alanball
Thanks again tletter and davidk for your welcome advice.
As you say tletter, I did back ups but unfortunately, manual and not automated and from the beginning of the year during Covid19 I got a bit slack. But luckily I think most of my user files will be recovered after my HDD failure.
As you have commented david, I also am not a believer in cloud back ups and have a number of HDDs I use. I will take a closer look at Windows10 backup options thanks tletter.

Again many thanks for all your advice.

Re: What programs to install on SSD?

Posted: Tue Jul 14, 2020 5:45 pm
by tletter
alanball wrote:I think most of my user files will be recovered after my HDD failure ... I also am not a believer in cloud back ups and have a number of HDDs I use.
For many users the additional reliability and enhanced access is why they use automatic backup to cloud storage. The cost of HDD data recovery normally exceeds the cost of long term cloud storage. So whether you backup locally or to cloud storage all depends on your pain points.

tletter
https://www.youtube.com/user/tletter