Editing project with multiple cameras

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electromotive
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Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by electromotive »

Hi. Can anyone point me to some tutorials to get me going on handling multiple cameras/views? Picture a conference setup.

I have a main camera A, which also has the main sound on the primary track, running all the time.
I have secondary cameras B, C, etc, which have alternate views, but not main sound, maybe only local pickup. They turn on and off all the time - its just a bunch of short clips of alternate angles or views. The alternate views could also be from stills.

I want to keep the main timeline from A running along the primary track, keep the sound going, but pickup/cut-in the video overlays from the alternate cameras (B, C) and maybe (optionally) mix-in their audio on top, like if someone asked a question from the audience, but mostly it will be zoom-in's of slides and things.

I sorta want to be able to bring everything into the project so I can watch and select the trim and cut-in points, move things around slightly, get the timing just right. Turn tracks on and off so I can see the isolated selections, drag them up and down the timeline, exchange clips, etc. I don't really want to separate the sound on the primary, because it needs to be kept in sync all the way through.

Can anyone recommend some tutorials to show how to do these basic editing operations (using X3 or X4?)
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by lata »

Hi

I think you sorta answered your own question in your last paragraph.

Place the main video in the top/main video timeline.

Place a clip/image in the overlay track, this will show on preview screen as a small clip, right click the screen and set Fit to Screen, then repeat as Keep aspect ratio.
You may however wish to use a Picture in Picture effect, keeping the overlay clip small.
There is also a P-in-P filter that is worth exploring. (FX Library)

Drag the clip to position, this may be the hardest to sync audio?

For a simple fade in there is an option from the Attributes tab (Directions and Styles) (please note the fades ramps set as 30% of the clip duration)

Audio
You may need to switch the audio, cut the top track immediately above the overlay video clip, mute the cut section.
Regards Trevor
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by skier-hughes »

To make life 1 million times easier when multicam editing......

NEVER EVER TURN OFF A CAMCORDER,

sync all cams once, edit away.
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by electromotive »

skier-hughes wrote:To make life 1 million times easier when multicam editing......

NEVER EVER TURN OFF A CAMCORDER,

sync all cams once, edit away.
I have seen this advise before, I can see the wisdom in this strategy, even though it virtually triples my battery and storage media requirements. However, that could be a small price to pay if it knocks hours off the post-. Why is this necessary though? Would it knock hours off the post? I'll try it.

But I'm pretty sure real production teams don't do this. Is that because they use SMPTE and all clips automatically time align later in post? If I make sure the clocks in each camera are pretty closely synchronized will I be able to use the time to get all the clips in their respective tracks sequenced into their rightful place in the timeline before I start editing? I can later move them. That would be a big help.

But aside from that, many of the B-clips won't be shot at the same time and I have to cut and reposition them in anyways. Once I know where I want to insert the clip, I'd like to be set a marker on the timeline and then find the B-clip I want to use and 'click' to make it jump to its new time, rather than have to drag them each over huge periods of time.

I need a space to hold the material I'm not using, but still want to be able to look at. So let's say I have 3 cameras, I guess I'd need 6 video tracks, two for each camera, one for the material that I'm cutting in (active), and one for the material I'm not (inactive), I don't want to delete anything. Have I got that right?

So the workflow might go something like this. I'd go through the B and C material, cut them up into possible stuff I could use, drop the stuff I probably won't use down into the inactive tracks. That thins out the keeper tracks and makes it a lot easier to find the clips I might use. Then with the keepers in mind, I'd start going through the A track, put markers where there are opportunities to cut-in alternate clips or stills. Then I need to quickly/easily move the B/C clips to roughly the right time (where I put markers), and then make the final time alignment and in/out transitions. Would be useful to retain a note of the original time in the clips properties so I can undo or modify later.

What I am trying to do must be totally routine in any sort of multi-camera production. So there must be lots of support and technique around for quickly and easily doing it, eh. Even single camera productions are usually shot out of sequence, and 80%+ of the take is going to be dead. Its only in post- that the final sequence is decided, and the exact cut-in/out points. But I sorta feel like I'm missing something in the tools I'm using.

In a traditional editing environment (I remember this from my Super8 days), you'd have a pile of camera rolls, each with frame numbers, each with multiple takes (unless its a conference or some other live event). All the neg is printed/telecined and screened, decision made what to keep and what not to, the cutter would be given frame by frame assembly instructions, the sequence of clips to assemble into one roll or set. Rather than spill everything else onto the floor, the unused material is also assembled into dead rolls for when they change their minds later. The process of re-ordering, re-cutting and pick-ups goes on and on, and then grading and timing, until exhaustion or your done.

After searching the net for for what features I need in a video editor to support multi-cameras, there is support out there. "[Product xx] has extensive support for multiple cameras, making it easy to group and select the best shots." I need to find out how.
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by ABS_Knight »

I believe I understand what you are talking about. For the past 9 years I have been using Media Studio Pro 6/7 and with that program it was very easy to do what you are talking about, at least with 2 cameras. I used to video a lot of plays and would use two cameras so that I could get good close ups without worrying about missing an entrance or something. It had two video tracks separated by a place for transitions. This made it very easy to line up your two tracks one time and then just switch back and forth as you went along. With the move to Media Studio Pro 8, however, they took out the second video track and you now have only one track for video. I have just recently found out that Media Studio Pro turned into Corel Videostudio but it maintains the same basic track setup as Media Studio Pro 8. There is a setting that seems to give the option of multiple video tracks but it is greyed out and I haven't figured out how to get more than the one. I am still using the trial version of x5 but if I can't figure out how to make it work like I am used to I will have to keep looking for a new video editing program. So far I have not been able to find any good information on this very basic approach to editing using Videostudio x5.
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by lata »

Hi

Welcome to the forums

Go to Settings-Track Manager
----------------------
There is also an icon to the left of the timeline rule. Float your mouse for tool tips
---------------------
Help Files
Press F1 then search for Track Manager, should give more info on working with overlays.
Regards Trevor
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by johnpr98 »

Hi

I have the same query regarding mutiple camera editing for school plays which was so easy in all the versions of MSPro (A bit lost over the remark by ABS_Knight regarding loss of video tracks in v8 unless it was a trial limitation), the trial version of VS hints at extra video tracks but is limited to one in the selection menu, are there more :?:

I'm not forking out my money on a maybe there are more :shock:

If there are links to shoot me down, please post them :lol:

Thanks
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by lata »

Hi

Did you read my reply above.
As far as i know the trial version is fully functional, some versions however are limited to the library content, but the program itself should have the capability of adding further tracks.
By default the timeline contains the main video track and an overlay track, both can be used to hold your video files.

When I open the Track Manager i see this panel, I can select 20 overlay tracks
Track Manager.jpg
Track Manager.jpg (46.31 KiB) Viewed 5336 times
Regards Trevor
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by johnpr98 »

Thanks for your reply, I am wiser now and have played around with the overlay function, I only installed VS this morning so I don't have your depth of knowledge, I don't remember multi cam eding been an option previoulsy in VS, however MSPro has been my main editing programme for 10 years now + DVD Workshop.

Video Track has #1 which is greyed out, hence I suspected that the full version had more video tracks

I always thought of overlay tracks as PIP etc. with limited functionality, in fact splitting the audio on multiple videos seems a bit of a fudge compared to MS Pro.

I suspect many users in my position who want multicam editing will be grateful for the clarification as this is my main use for an editing programme.

If it isn't clear that Corel VS can multi cam edit it will lose sales to editing programmes that make it crystal clear they can, I don't know if it will be functional enough to make me move away from Media Studio Pro but it looks more promising now.

All the best
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by ABS_Knight »

Johnpr98: I installed MSPro 8 a couple of years ago and didn't use it, if memory serves, because it had the same track setup as VS. Didn't have 2 video tracks. I may not be remembering correctly though.

Using overlay tracks is not the same thing and not nearly as easy as having 2 video tracks.
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by johnpr98 »

Hi ABS_Knight

MSPro7 and before used to have the transitions between the video tracks....I think.

MSPro8 you placed the transitions on the Video track itself, no problem once you changed the way of working.

MSP8 also had more video and audio tracks than the average user needed
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by ABS_Knight »

That's the rub - I played with it for a bit and was not able to make it work to my liking so I went back to MS Pro 7. VS Pro X5 is set up the same way and there are several of us that are looking for an easy way to work with multiple camera footage. It seems like people are not understanding what it is we are attmepting to do. I will try to give a an explanation:

In MS Pro 7 you had two video tracks with a transition track in between. You could put the video from one camera in the first track and the other camera in the second track. I would use the audio tracks to align the clips and then it was simply a matter of scrolling through the timeline to see where you wanted to switch from camera one to camera two. When you came to a spot where you wanted to go to camera two you made a cut in camera two and cleared the previous clip. Then you could make a cut in camera one and rolled it back until you wanted to switch back to it. Or you could find the spot and make another cut and clear that section of camera one. Add your transitions and you moved on to the next edit point.

I have not found a way to do this with either MS Pro 8 or VS Pro X5. When you remove a section of the video track it doesn't leave the hole, it immediately slides it forward whether you have ripple editing on or off. What I have tried is to go ahead and line up the two cameras on the video track and the first overlay track. When I come to an edit point I select all and clip both tracks at the beginning and the end of the section I want to interject into the main track. I remove the section from track one and then slide in the section from track two. This would seem to work if you didn't want to use transitions. When you add the transition it slides the video that you interjected and now the two are out of alignment by the length of the transition. It happens again when you insert the transition at the other end.

If there is another way to do what I am trying to do, I would love for someone to lay it out. What was very easy and intuitive in MS Pro 7 seems to be a nightmare in subsequent versions. To further explain, I video a lot of plays and use two cameras. One is still and takes in the whole scene. The other I run and try to get in close and follow the action. When I miss an entrance or something like that, I move out to camera two for a bit and then switch back to camera one as soon as I am able.

I have searched and searched and have not found any tutorials or posts or anything regarding this type of scenario. At least, none with suitable answers. :)

Thanks for any help!

Paul
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by lata »

Hi Paul

You say "It seems like people are not understanding what it is we are attmepting to do. I will try to give a an explanation:"

I'm sure you are missing something here.............

Editing in the top track automatically moves all clips to the left to fill any spaces, that is part of VS editing.
Adding transitions uses the same track, there is not a dedicated track for transitions.

OK
Add the main video to the top track
From Preferences (F6) set Edit Tab--Use Fit to screen as default size.
Add camera two to the overlay track.


Synchronise both videos, adding a colour clip to the top track may help, as you can adjust the duration frame by frame, literally nudging the top track.

Cut camera two footage in the overlay track removing the bits you do not need. this will have the effect of switching between tracks.
---------------------------
Audio
Using the Sound Mixer to control the levels of each track.
Do you need to switch audio from one video to the other?
You could cut the top track in the same place as the overlay, muting the sections you do not require.

----------------------------
Other options........
Use Two Overlay tracks
Add your videos, cut each track to remove the unwanted sections, the other section remain in place.

---------------------------
Regards Trevor
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by ABS_Knight »

Ok, using 2 overlay tracks instead of the video track is helpful. Synchronizing the video is not a problem. Even using the 2 overlay tracks, however, it remains a problem to keep the synchronization when you add transition effects.

I think I found an acceptable solution. When I get ready to merge the two overlay tracks to put in the transition, I used the grab handle at the end of the clip and make it one second longer on the leading end. This gives me the overlap I need for the transition effect without throwing the sync off. Thanks for your help! I guess it's a case of old dog and new tricks. I've been doing it a certain way for almost 10 years and could do it in my sleep!
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Re: Editing project with multiple cameras

Post by lata »

Hi

What transitions do to want to use.
generally for the top track we use a transition between two clips, this reduced the overall length and indeed would affect sync'
Earlier versions did not allow for transitions in the overlay track but the latest version is quite versatile.

We are able to add a transition to a single clip, (VS X4 / X5) the lengths do not change therefore sync is ok

Drag a transition to the clip in the overlay track, the transition will apply to the single clip.
----------------------------------
What do you mean by merge the two video tracks, are you saying you are moving the cut overlays into a single track?

Complete the editing using the separate tracks.
Playing the project in Project Playback will show the entire effect.
Share Create video File will create a single video file
Regards Trevor
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