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Poor Editing Experience

Poor Editing Experience

Postby JPW » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:19 am

I have a fairly new laptop with an i5 processor, SSD M2 HDD and almost no software loaded on it except for video editing software. Normally, it is very fast, but I'm really struggling to edit 4K video in VS Ultimate. The same experience exists in X10. I am using SmartProxy and I have tried disabling it and the same poor experience exists. I've tried disabling and enabling hardware acceleration and the experience is the same. All the raw video files and the SmartProxy files are saved on the local SSD.

I created a video below so you could see an example of what I'm contending with. Basically, the SmartProxy does a great job of allowing me to move through the 4K video with ease. However, as soon as you attempt to do some very basic editing, like splitting a clip, it completely hesitates for about 8 seconds for each command to complete. You can hear the clicking in the background on my mouse attempting to get some kind of response out of VS. Adobe Premiere Pro and Davinci Resolve accomplish these tasks instantly. Is there something I'm doing wrong in VS that would cause this kind of issue?

https://youtu.be/KfHA7yhMQtU
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby weaver » Sun Feb 24, 2019 11:47 am

Hi

Wait few minutes when you pull all your clips to the timeline. The VS needs some time to create the proxy files. This is indicated with a small icon on the thumbnails on the time line. After that it is much faster ( almost real time).
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby lata » Sun Feb 24, 2019 12:47 pm

Hi
Same as Eugen’s reply, give smart proxy time to create the files.
Editing whilst they are being created can be slow.
View Settings Smart Proxy Manager – Queue Manager to view progress, and File Manager to view a list.

proxy icon.jpg
click image for larger view
Regards Trevor
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby JPW » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:13 pm

No no no guys. The SmartProxy files have been done. I created them manually before dropping them on the timeline. You can see the little icon reflected in those stills on the video. You can also tell from the start of the video as I scrub through the video how smoothly it moves through the video. If I didn't have the proxy file created there is no way it could move through the timeline on a 4k video like that. However, it doesn't matter whether the SmartProxy file is created or not for actual editing. The experience is the same. Any splices take about 8 seconds with or without the SmartProxy file. Here is another video that should help make it a bit more clear that the SmartProxy file is already there. Again, DaVinici and Adobe Premiere splice these videos instantly with or without the SmartProxy file on this same computer.

https://youtu.be/5DbMMkBC2h0
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby asik1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 2:35 pm

one thing for sure, your clicking will not get it faster as you keep sending comands
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby weaver » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:02 pm

JPW wrote:No no no guys. The SmartProxy files have been done. I created them manually before dropping them on the timeline. You can see the little icon reflected in those stills on the video. You can also tell from the start of the video as I scrub through the video how smoothly it moves through the video. If I didn't have the proxy file created there is no way it could move through the timeline on a 4k video like that. However, it doesn't matter whether the SmartProxy file is created or not for actual editing. The experience is the same. Any splices take about 8 seconds with or without the SmartProxy file. Here is another video that should help make it a bit more clear that the SmartProxy file is already there. Again, DaVinici and Adobe Premiere splice these videos instantly with or without the SmartProxy file on this same computer.

https://youtu.be/5DbMMkBC2h0



I think you make a mistake. The proxy files created in advance are probably not coupled with the timeline and that can be a problem. It happens often that even when the editing is in progress and next day I want continue, the VS starts to recreate the proxies. I do not know yet why, but this problem is quite common. Especially when I have several projects in progress.

Try it on the way we told you. Delete now the proxies ( no icons in the thumbnails) pull them to the timeline and wait until the VS creates a new proxy there. If it is done, try to cut the clip. If it is still slow than the problem is probably in HW confugration.
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby JPW » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:27 pm

asik1 wrote:one thing for sure, your clicking will not get it faster as you keep sending comands


Thanks. I am aware. The clicking was for the people viewing the video. I'm not sure there is any other way to get the point across that the system is hung up attempting to complete the first command and that it seemingly can't get to the any other command until about 8 seconds have passed.
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby JPW » Sun Feb 24, 2019 3:50 pm

weaver wrote:
I think you make a mistake. The proxy files created in advance are probably not coupled with the timeline and that can be a problem. It happens often that even when the editing is in progress and next day I want continue, the VS starts to recreate the proxies. I do not know yet why, but this problem is quite common. Especially when I have several projects in progress.

Try it on the way we told you. Delete now the proxies ( no icons in the thumbnails) pull them to the timeline and wait until the VS creates a new proxy there. If it is done, try to cut the clip. If it is still slow than the problem is probably in HW confugration.[/quote]

Thanks. I did as you suggested and the result was the same. See the video below. Any idea what I should be looking at in regards to hardware configuration? I've tried having hardware acceleration on for editing both with and without proxy files and this issue persists in both scenarios. Is there something else I should possibly be looking at?

https://youtu.be/2qtg8F1PjPE
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby weaver » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:13 pm

Unfortunately on video I cannot follow what you are doing. ( to low resolution)
Something is very different from my praxis. I do not pull any menus etc when I am editing the video.
I just pull the clip from the library to the timeline ( without and additional clicks), wait some time until the icon appears on the thumbnail and edit it directly. There is mostly no problem at all. For my taste you are doing to many click - probably this confuses the VS.
( check what is your proxy folder in preferences and also click on the icon with the right mouse button and check there if it is the same).
I gave up, i never had such troubles when the proxies were correctly made.
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby JPW » Sun Feb 24, 2019 4:27 pm

weaver wrote:Unfortunately on video I cannot follow what you are doing. ( to low resolution)
Something is very different from my praxis. I do not pull any menus etc when I am editing the video.
I just pull the clip from the library to the timeline ( without and additional clicks), wait some time until the icon appears on the thumbnail and edit it directly. There is mostly no problem at all. For my taste you are doing to many click - probably this confuses the VS.
( check what is your proxy folder in preferences and also click on the icon with the right mouse button and check there if it is the same).
I gave up, i never had such troubles when the proxies were correctly made.


The iPhone doesn't do a great job of the video capture. Are you looking at the 1080p version? I would think it would give you an idea. Basically, the menus I'm pulling in the beginning of the video are just for additional information to show there are no proxy files created. What I'm doing is exactly as you described. I pull the video onto the timeline and then the smartproxy file creation begins. This is the window with the green progress bar to reflect it is actually creating the proxy file. Once the proxy file creation is done I simply show some movement along the timeline to show that the proxy file moves along the timeline very smoothly. It only then once I try to do any basic editing to the video such as splicing where things sort of fall apart and it doesn't matter how much time you give VS, once you attempt to splice or accomplish any basic editing with the video is where the huge amount of hesitation enters.

At first I thought this might be that my laptop is too slow, but then I tried DaVinci Resolve and Adobe Premiere. The splices and really any basic editing is done instantaneously. Very confusing why VS seems to struggle with it.
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby weaver » Sun Feb 24, 2019 5:43 pm

Sorry I have no more ideas. The VS2018 is slower than the earlier versions but it is definitiveky not that slow as on your video.
My son had also some issues on his laptop - but those were coupled rather with preview picture - sometimes itwas simple not there, but the final video and the workflow was OK. Maybe it is with yiur laptop. What is the OS?

Before start you the VS click on the icon on the desktop with R mouse button and open the preferences. There is somewhere the compatibility button, select the corresponding OS.
Last edited by weaver on Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby asik1 » Sun Feb 24, 2019 6:02 pm

JPW, have you looked in the tasks manager? Resource Monitor?
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby tletter » Mon Feb 25, 2019 2:23 am

JPW wrote:However, as soon as you attempt to do some very basic editing, like splitting a clip, it completely hesitates for about 8 seconds for each command to complete.

In my experience, whilst editing 4K, VS2018 is frequently unresponsive for a minute or so when trying to edit a VSP. All clip have Smartproxy files created so that isn't the issue, rather the issue may relate to filters being used but it's not clear. As well, VS2018 frequently silently crashes or fails to render out a 4K video.

asik1 wrote:have you looked in the tasks manager?

When it's unresponsive, VS2018 is reported by TM as "not responding" for a minute or so. There is ample unused CPU and RAM available.

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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby JPW » Sat Mar 02, 2019 2:22 pm

asik1 wrote:JPW, have you looked in the tasks manager? Resource Monitor?


I have. Resources are very much available. It just feels like VS is processing something on its own, but not even using everything available to it to do so. Also, I'm not using any filters on these videos. I've just been trying to splice a newly imported 4k file that has been proxy-ed (attempting with and without proxy, same result). That's it. Weird.

Ultimately, it pains me to say this, but I thought I might pass on what I think my final solution is. After probably using VS for 10 years and being dedicated to it, this issue was sort of a tipping point for me. I really feel for companies like Corel when they release products like VS at a cost (as they should of course) and then their competitors come along and hand out products for free (BlackMagic). I don't know how anyone can compete.

Anyway, I decided to take the same 4K footage I was using in Corel VS and move it over to Davinici Resolve, create some proxy files, and see how the editing works there. I was just spending way too much time trying to figure out issues in VS. Not only is it were the results in DR lightning fast, but the proxy files are of amazing quality. The scrubbing is pretty darn smooth as well. Who knows, I might find something later on that moves me away from DR and back to VS, but for now it is working for me and working well.

I will say the learning curve from VS to DR is pretty steep or at least it was for me. I wouldn't consider myself an expert video editor, but probably at least a strong novice. One of VS's strengths is that things are very intuitive and laid out very nicely in the GUI. There isn't much of need to memorize hotkeys. It is all there in front of you. I haven't found DR nearly as intuitive. Just to perform some basic tasks like generating proxy files and being able to point where those proxy files should go has taken me way more time than it should have. In VS it all made perfect sense. Not so much in DR. DR is ridiculously powerful and it isn't exactly suited for novices like me, but the lightning fast editing (where I spend most of my time when it comes to this) is addictive so I'll just be forced to learn things as I go along.
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Re: Poor Editing Experience

Postby brycii » Sun Mar 17, 2019 1:48 am

Hi, I'm having exactly the same problem. I've been using VS for years but have recently bought a drone with a 4K camera and VS doesn't seem to be able to cope with editing the files. I've done the smart proxy conversion, waited until the keyboard icon appears on the thumbnail, and then dragged them into the timeline. When I try and play them as an individual clip they stutter and jump, and when I try and trim them they do the same thing in Multi Trim viewing screen. If I select "Project" instead of "Clip" and hit Play then it Plays smoothly in the preview screen. Weird how it will play smoothly as a Project but not when selected as an individual Clip.
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