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PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby iNate » Tue May 15, 2018 11:39 pm

Intel i7-7700HQ (Intel HD 630 iGPU)
4GB GTX 1050
16GB DDR4 2400 MHz RAM
250GB NVMe Samsung Evo 960 SSD
1TB FireCuda SSHD (8GB SSD Cache, 128MB Drive Cache)

All firmware and Drivers up to date. Running WIndows 10 Home 1803 (Latest April Update)

Just upgraded to VideoStudio Ultimate 2018, and it runs worse on this machine than VideoStudio Pro X9 runs on my old laptop, so I'm literally just upgrading that to Ultimate for less and using it on that older machine (Lol?). My machine is set up fine. It's not a software or OS problem. It's a VideoStudio and Nvidia problem - for some reason, they forgot to call Nvidia and ask them to remove VideoStudio from the blacklist that forbids applications from running on the GPU on Optimus Notebooks..

I really can't even rationalize the performance of this software. It's fully updated, (SP2 downloaded automatically during installation) and there is no other update available. It makes my machine feel like it 4 years old, instead of 5-6 months.

1. The Timeline scrubbing is awful.

Laggy, jerky, stutter, pauses all the time - especially when dragging effects onto clips, rearranging clips on the timline, switching panes (Edit-> Export, etc.). The NLE will often free for several seconds when trying to drag bundled effects onto the timeline. Video playback is very jerky. Forget layered tracks... Good luck with that.

2. Frequent crashes out of no where. More consistently reproducible when dragging effects like NB Titler and Boris Plug-Ins onto clips - frankly, the only reason I even considered this upgrade.

The application just disappears, with no error message or anything. This happens CONSTANTLY. It's unusably unstable.

3. Inability to use the GTX GPU - at all.

Nvidia panel will not allow setting the High Performance GPU for Corel VideoStudio. It's greyed out. I have tried:

A. Selecting "High Performance GPU" from the context menu on the Desktop Icon
B. Creating a Hard Link to VStudio.exe with a different name in the same directory, and setting that to use the GTX GPU in the Nvidia Control Panel.

Neither of those work. It only works on the Intel Card, always. The Nvidia GPU Monitor never shows VideoStudio as running on the GTX Card. GPU-Z doesn't show any activity on the GTX Card. Task manager only shows the Intel iGPU being used.

Since all of the Plug-Ins are DLLs, this means that they all are forced to run on the Intel GPU, as that's what the application/process calling them is using. Most of these plug-ins are designed to run on better hardware than an Intel HD 630, and the performance is beyond awful. 6FPS playback in Boris or NewBlue for some 24FPS 1080o clips with really simple titles. Boris Graffiti will even tell you that you aren't running a supported GPU, because you cannot use the better GPU in this machine. FTR: Intel HD/UHD is not equivalent to Intel Iris/Iris Plus/Iris Pro iGPUs, which have far better performance - particularly for Compute and Video Editing/Photography applications.

NB Titler does come with a standalone launcher stub, and Choosing "High Performance GPU" from the context menu with that results in flawless performance, which means the issue is with VideoStudio - not the plug-ins. When run from VideoStudio… 6FPS playabck for the default screen that pops up right when the Titler launches. This applies to the NLE itself, as well as every other bundled plug-in. Everything performs terribly, and is incredible unstable. I've had it crash going back to the NLE from NB Titler multiple times.

You cannot change VideoStudio to use the he GTX card. The drop-down to switch is greyed out. I have tried the context menu from a desktop icon. It does nothing. I have tried creating a hard-link to vstudio.exe an d setting a profile for that. It doesn't work. It only works on the Intel Card, always.

Corel Support:

I'm trying to get a refund, and working with Corel Tech Support has been absolutely awful. First of all, the support people are WORST THAN COMCAST in terms of ignoring what you tell them and simply trying to push you up the food chain (endlessly) to stop you from getting your money back.

So, after finally getting the link to request a refund, and putting it in... I am told I need information from the Invoice that was never provided to me. All Corel sent me was a confirmation email with the Order number and serial number. No invoice has been added to my account. Contact support again, and apparently they cannot provide me with the Order Reference number (a different number from the invoice - I have an old Invoice from when I upgraded to PSP X9, but nothing new has been added since I purchased this upgrade).

The only reason I bought this, was to use it to design Titles with the plug-ins and render out for use in other NLEs... That's it. I already have VEGAS Movie Studio and Pro 14. This was just a cheaper way to get access to Titler Pro and Title Studio/Graffiti. But, the software does not work properly on Optimus systems, has awful performance, and is not stable...

And I'm pretty sure I'm never going to buy another Corel product after dealing with their COMCAST-level support. Took several minutes of chatting just to get what I clearly stated I wanted in the dialog I filled out prior to starting the chat.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby Ken Berry » Wed May 16, 2018 1:08 am

Hi Nate -- though from your tale of woe, I suspect iRate would be a more accurate moniker, and justifiably so.

You will see from my Profile under my avatar picture that I have an Intel setup, though it's not an Optimus notebook but a NUC. It has a Core i7 series CPU but it only has one graphics card -- the Intel Iris 650. So to that extent our computers are comparable. I have to say that using the Intel Iris GPU, my own VS 2018 runs very smoothly and fast. I know that is probably not what you want to hear right now, but it would be interesting to know whether others out there with similar setups are also having trouble.

I also have two older computers, both only Core i3, with dual Intel and NVidia GPUs. One of them allows me to choose between the two, but I have found that that computer, which also has VS 2018, processes my video projects more smoothly and faster with the on-board Intel GPU than when I have chosen the NVidia card.

I see that you are using Win 10. Have you updated that yet to the very latest version, which is 1803? It only came out a couple of weeks ago. I note that it gives Win 10 several new features, one of which is that it will allow a user to assign a specific GPU to a specific app. If you haven't yet updated to 1803, I'd be looking to do so. Then you go into Settings > System > Display and scroll to the very bottom of that page where you should see Graphics Settings. And that is where you assign which GPU to which apps...
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby iNate » Wed May 16, 2018 3:07 am

No. Our iGPUs are not comparable. Read my post:

"FTR: Intel HD/UHD is not equivalent to Intel Iris/Iris Plus/Iris Pro iGPUs, which have far better performance - particularly for Compute and Video Editing/Photography applications."

If they were comparable, then I would not have paid more to get a discrete card. I'd have just gotten a sexier, much cheaper, laptop with HD 630 Graphics and laughed on my way to the bank. My iMac has Iris Pro. There is no comparison between Iris iGPU and HD/UHD. Back then, even the Radeon iGPUs were superior to "below Iris" iGPUs; just the CPUs had bad single thread performance (but they were decent for Video Editing :-P).

Also from my post:

"All firmware and Drivers up to date. Running Windows 10 Home 1803 (Latest April Update)"

Nothing makes it run on the GTX card. I've tried it all (including the Windows setting).

I've since uninstalled it and trying to get a refund for the purchase.

Older GPUs are old. Older GeForce GPUs are considerably slower than Pascal cards. It's not even a comparable situation, and AMD's iGPUs back then were VERY good compared to Intel's, on top of Video Editing being very "in line" with where their APUs were strongest (multi-threaded performance). So, it does not surprise me that my AMD APU from mid-2013 does "well" with the software. What surprises me is how awful the performance is on my Late 2017 Notebook with vastly superior software (in virtually every way imaginable).

I don't care about rendering times (if that's what you mean by "processes your video"). I care about editing and timeline performance, and stability. I want to be able to scroll, drag clips, apply and configure effects, run plug-ins, switch panes, play back media, etc. without the massive performance slow down. I need to be able to use my GTX card for that. I've run TitlerStandalone.exe with High Performance Card. It's completely night and day. The Video NLE needs to be able to run this way for good performance on my machine. It's not usable with the HD 630, unless you are simply "used to bad performance," which [no offense] many people here very well may be (given the market segment)...

I don't watch my computers render, and I typically render to uncompressed masters and then use that to create delivery files in a batch transcoder, anyways, where I have more control over the rendering. There is no GPU Accelerated Encoding for those Renders, (only decoding if it's a supported format), so that is very much not a major concern of mine (if that's what you meant by "processes your video."

I was only getting this to use as a glorified Title Designer, since the Plug-In bundle seemed irresistible. I use other NLEs to cut footage (where I'm not forced to edit bad delivery CODECs on the timeline), but it's so unstable and performs so badly that I cannot even use it for that limited task.
Last edited by iNate on Wed May 16, 2018 5:45 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby RobertOZ » Wed May 16, 2018 3:37 am

OK, I have the same Intel i7-7700HQ with Intel 630 GPU
4GB GTX 1050Ti
16 GB DDR4 Ram
250 GB Toshiba SSD
1 TB WD 5400 RPM HD

Still on Win 10 version 1709 (waiting for auto update)

VS-2018 still does not have the ability to select the Nvidia card
Can only say that with this setup VS runs very smoothly and fast.

Ken, Still on 1709 but under Settings\System\Display there is no Graphics Settings icon, is this new to 1803
Win 10 version 1803 is not compatible with Toshiba SSD, resolution not expected until June
Last edited by RobertOZ on Wed May 16, 2018 5:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby iNate » Wed May 16, 2018 5:47 am

I finally got in touch with the correct payment processor (Corel support sent me to wrong company, thanks for the wasted 2 hours of back and forth emails wondering why they couldn’t find my order) and they said they have put in a request for refund.
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Video Card: Intel HD 630 - Nvidia GTX 1050
sound_card: Realtek
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 1.25TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: ASUS 1080p IPS LCD
Corel programs: PSP X9, VS X9, VS 2018

Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby Ken Berry » Wed May 16, 2018 5:48 am

RobertOZ wrote:Ken, Still on 1709 but under Settings\System\Display there is no Graphics Settings icon, is this new to 1803
Win 10 version 1803 is not compatible with Toshiba SSD, resolution not expected until June


Yes, it's one of several new features which comes with 1803. I confess I haven't yet tried it on my two i3 machines with dual GPUs. I have also updated their Win 10 to 1803.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby RobertOZ » Wed May 16, 2018 7:00 am

My system has updated to Win 10 1803, have to hope that my Toshiba SSD is not one of the affected SSDs, with luck it only refers to the upper range XG4, XG5 & BG3 range of drives and not those provided to Dell

The Nvidia Control Panel, Manage 3D Settings still does not allow VS to use anything other than the Integrated graphics

Can't work out how the Graphics Settings, performance preference is supposed to work, the only System Default Setting shown is the Nvidia GTX 1050TI, the on board Integrated graphics Intel 630 is not listed
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby RobertOZ » Wed May 16, 2018 8:33 am

Notice that the update to 1803 removed all the system restore points, as it happened, I had to restore back to the previous version of Windows, 1709, it appears that 1803 causes battery issues with Toshiba SSD, and my battery stopped charging
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby Charlie Wilkes » Wed May 16, 2018 7:35 pm

iNate wrote:I finally got in touch with the correct payment processor (Corel support sent me to wrong company, thanks for the wasted 2 hours of back and forth emails wondering why they couldn’t find my order) and they said they have put in a request for refund.


What a bummer. I can see why you're frustrated.

Corel is advertising CUDA support with VS 2018. From what I see on this board, they have not implemented it properly. This probably reflects Corel's strategy of outsourcing development, but nVidia's penchant for secrecy doesn't help matters.

There's nothing you can do except get your money back and move on... unfortunate.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby asik1 » Thu May 17, 2018 4:30 am

Corel is advertised CUDA support since X7.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby Charlie Wilkes » Thu May 17, 2018 7:18 am

asik1 wrote:Corel is advertised CUDA support since X7.


I'm going by Corel's VS 2018 reviewer's guide, where they list nVidia CUDA optimization as a new feature.

Something seems to have changed, because several people have posted here with stability issues involving VS 2018 with nVidia graphics.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby iNate » Fri May 18, 2018 5:02 am

asik1 wrote:Corel is advertised CUDA support since X7.

CUDA has different versions. If your CUDA support is out of date, then it won't work on newer graphics cards. I think the advertisement is more about "updated CUDA support" (for newer/current gen. Nvidia cards) than "newly added support" (in general).

The CUDA in older versions of VideoStudio will not work on newer cards. Some other NLEs (like VEGAS Movie Studio/Pro) have this same exact issue (will work on a GTX580, won't work on a GTX980).
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby Charlie Wilkes » Fri May 18, 2018 5:59 am

iNate wrote:
asik1 wrote:Corel is advertised CUDA support since X7.

CUDA has different versions. If your CUDA support is out of date, then it won't work on newer graphics cards. I think the advertisement is more about "updated CUDA support" (for newer/current gen. Nvidia cards) than "newly added support" (in general).

The CUDA in older versions of VideoStudio will not work on newer cards. Some other NLEs (like VEGAS Movie Studio/Pro) have this same exact issue (will work on a GTX580, won't work on a GTX980).


Interesting. I didn't know this.

I get your frustration, and it does sound like Corel pushed out a bad release, because I have seen three or four similar posts in the past couple of weeks of browsing this board.

BUT, your comment leads to interesting speculation.

nVidia's reputation is that they use proprietary driver secrets as leverage in dealing with game studios. To the extent that is true, and I don't claim to know, it could make life difficult for a small company like Corel.

I can't imagine a game that would get higher frame rates with a 580 than a 980. That would be absurd, and if it was a game that had any visibility at all in the gamer community, I think nVidia would work with the developers to fix it.

So what you say suggests a difficulty developers face in trying to use nVidia drivers to accelerate the performance of graphics software. If Magix is having this problem... and Corel... maybe it is at least partially a problem with nVidia's business practices.
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby Ken Berry » Fri May 18, 2018 10:48 am

There used to be -- and, I suspect, still remains -- a similar sort of problem relating to the many video capture devices out there. Many (perhaps most) didn't, and still don't work, with Video Studio. Obviously, users who bought such devices have been outraged that Corel has not got their program to work with these devices. In a very few cases they did by going into arrangements with the companies that produced certain devices. Corel tweaked earlier versions of Video Studio to work with the very small number of capture devices whose companies were willing to share their proprietary methods used by their devices to capture video. But the reality was that most of the device companies were not willing to share those secrets very widely. They either used their own software or had arrangements with other video editing companies to tweak their software.

The result was -- and is -- that Video Studio only works directly with a very limited number of such devices to capture video directly into Video Studio. And that is why we have, over the years, always recommended users capture using the software which comes with capture devices, rather than trying to get Video Studio to capture from the devices when quite obviously they are not going to work properly or at all. Users more often than not are not happy with our explanation, but there is little we can do about it.

Frankly, I don't know if a similar situation exists with NVidia, though I suspect you are quite right, though the situation is in this case probably worse since there is no alternate software. We have known for some years that VS CUDA support is based on earlier versions of CUDA, and that the supporting software no longer works with more recent versions of CUDA. But again I suspect that resolving the problem is far more difficult than most users might expect or worse, be willing to accept...
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Re: PSA - Incompatible with Optimus Notebooks

Postby iNate » Sat May 19, 2018 2:47 am

Charlie Wilkes wrote:
iNate wrote:
asik1 wrote:Corel is advertised CUDA support since X7.

CUDA has different versions. If your CUDA support is out of date, then it won't work on newer graphics cards. I think the advertisement is more about "updated CUDA support" (for newer/current gen. Nvidia cards) than "newly added support" (in general).

The CUDA in older versions of VideoStudio will not work on newer cards. Some other NLEs (like VEGAS Movie Studio/Pro) have this same exact issue (will work on a GTX580, won't work on a GTX980).


Interesting. I didn't know this.

I get your frustration, and it does sound like Corel pushed out a bad release, because I have seen three or four similar posts in the past couple of weeks of browsing this board.

BUT, your comment leads to interesting speculation.

Which is only just speculation.

I'm partially incorrect in my statement earlier, in that CUDA is designed to be forward compatible, so old CUDA SDKs will still work on newer cards. The issue with card compatibility only arises when there is card-specific code in the applications... That being said, it is completely non-factor, as I never stated the issue was the version CUDA they were running, or the CUDA support at all. My assertion that has everything to do with Nvidia Optimus setups disallowing VideoStudio to run on the GTX GPU, which nullifies the CUDA support updates altogether. If you cannot run the application on the GPU, then the CUDA optimizations de facto do not exist in such a situation, because you're not going to get it from the Intel GPU (ignoring the huge performance delta between the two GPUs).

It also creates a problem for Pro-level Plug-Ins that ship with the NLE (which are designed for more powerful hardware) performing badly as a result of being spawned via Dynamic Link Library calls, which forces them to run on the same GPU as the application which called them.

The NVIDIA Control Panel clearly indicates:

Indicates which graphics processor programs will use. To ensure compatibility, the driver may override this setting.
Programs that launch on external displays that are driven by the NVIDIA GPU will always use the NVIDIA GPU.


So I'm leaning more towards a compatibility issue.

The only issue, currently, is to run the application on an external monitor, which would (or should) run on the Nvidia GPU by default.

Nvidia's business practices aren't a factor in the discussion.

VEGAS Pro/Movie Studio has the same issue with AMD Cards (Old work, new doesn't). I only didn't mention it because we were discussing specifically Nvidia and their Optimus setup/CUDA. They're one example where using code optimized for specific hardware generations renders it inert when you don't keep it updated for later hardware revisions.

... though the situation is in this case probably worse since there is no alternate software.

I'm confused by this statement... What do you mean no alternative software. Alternative to what? Cause I can rattle off a number of alternatives to VideoStudio which run properly on an Optimus setup.

I've corrected misinformation (or rather, vague and potentially easily misleading information) that I posted, which led to bad speculation by the other posters. The CUDA version likely has nothing to do with it, and it's probably something to do with compatibility. I didn't bother to try running the application in Compatibility Mode before I removed it, but I probably should have.

Perhaps someone else with an similar setup here can try running it in Compatibility Mode (Windows 8 and Vista) and see if that changes whether or not the Application can run on the discrete GPU.

I never bothered to check if VideoStudio Pro X9 had this same issue (could not run on GTX Card). I just always assumed it simply didn't support CUDA at all, and that's why its performance was bad on my machine. This is why I just upgraded to 2018 instead of just going Pro -> Ultimate with X9 earlier. Then again, they advertised HEVC support for X9 and it's completely absent on my machine with that version... (not an issue for this thread ;-) )
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Video Card: Intel HD 630 - Nvidia GTX 1050
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