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a PSP guide to loving ASP

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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby afx » Sat Feb 11, 2012 2:58 pm

Tadjio wrote:Right, we'll wash my dirty linen in public :D
I've seen dirtier ;-)

These are all defaults or starting points to be switched off if desired.
I suggest using presets instead and keeping the defaults to a minimum.
Trying to learn a new program with lots of stuff switched on by default can lead to quite a few hard bumps in the learning curve.

The NN + Raw Noise is an experiment as a 'starting point' for Noise Reduction - I plan to edit it later particularly once I know if I will Register NN. Does NN + Raw Noise do any harm?
not per se. They can complement each other nicely. My Oly XZ-1 needs that combo.
I keep reading that Sharpening is different in ASP from Bibble.
Yup. Bibble sharpening was ok, nothing special. AS sharpening is not really good as they put it in the wrong spot. I am very much hoping that they will fix that in the next drop.
WS always delivers better results, but in Bibble that was not always needed. In AS, the regular sharpening is not usable for anything larger than web pics in my eyes.

Yellow label and one star? That is my 'minimum' default for Raw Images from which I work towards 5 stars and a different label for JPGs and other output files.
But what's the difference between no star and no labels and one star+label by default?
The star and label will not signify anything in that case, so it might as well be left off.

What's wrong with my Crop parameters? How do you set Crop Fit by default?
There is no need to activate it, just keep the other parameters.

cheers
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby Tadjio » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:31 pm

afx wrote:
Does NN + Raw Noise do any harm?
not per se. They can complement each other nicely. My Oly XZ-1 needs that combo.
In AS, the regular sharpening is not usable for anything larger than web pics in my eyes.
Yellow label and one star?
But what's the difference between no star and no labels and one star+label by default?
The star and label will not signify anything in that case, so it might as well be left off.

What's wrong with my Crop parameters? How do you set Crop Fit by default?
There is no need to activate it, just keep the other parameters.
cheers
afx

This camera is an Oly too! What are your default or preset settings?
I will try WS2 but perhaps wait for the next release of ASP.
All my Images CR2, ORF, JPG, TIF start with no Rating and no Label so I want to distingush the RAW ones that ASP has 'seen' and to which its Raw Defaults have been applied.
The Yellow Label tells me it is RAW (I can't outsort them in ASP File System) and the Rating tells me I have started the 'rating' process.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby afx » Sat Feb 11, 2012 3:40 pm

I do no think the settingys of my P&S translate well to Micro 4/3 cam...

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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby Tadjio » Sun Feb 12, 2012 6:23 pm

One new concept for us coming from PSP to ASP is that of the Image Processing Pipe line.
In PSP we had to make our own decisions on the sequence of editing actions, for example that Sharpening should be near to last.
In ASP/Bibble I have seen references to the pipe and stumbled across a list in the AfterShotPro.log that is written for each session.
This is numbered from 0 to 37 in my case, and includes for example:
0 : "UncompressedRawData"
1 : "RawNoise"
2 : "Demosaic"
10 : "NoiseNinja"
12 : "zPerspectorFilter"
15 : "Crop"
16 : "WhiteBalance"
17 : "AutoLevel"
18 : "Exposure"
19 : "FillLight"
23 : "WaveletSharpen2_Wavelet_Filter"
24 : "Sharpen"
26 : "PerfectlyClear"
27 : "Color"
34 : "Curves"

This list is helpful as a PPS guide to loving ASP.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby MarkZ » Mon Feb 13, 2012 1:06 pm

Tadjio wrote: . . I have seen references to the pipe and stumbled across a list in the AfterShotPro.log that is written for each session.
This is numbered from 0 to 37 in my case, and includes for example: . . .

Yes, I've wondered about the pipeline references; interesting information.

The unanswered question - is the sequence a record of your operations in processing an image or does ASP process in that sequence the modifications that you choose? For me, the implication is that ASP controls the sequence. I guess one way to find out is to process two images using different order of changes and check the logs.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby spoilerhead » Mon Feb 13, 2012 2:16 pm

The pipeline is fixed. Its no difference if you e.g. Sharpen frist and modify the contrast later or vice versa, the results are the same.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby DocBrown » Tue Feb 14, 2012 12:23 pm

Which is a wonderful thing because it takes the guess work out and allows you to just work the image. Another reason that ASP should be the first part of your workflow, even with JPGs and TIFFs.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby JStanley » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:28 am

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Last edited by JStanley on Sun Mar 04, 2012 12:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby Tadjio » Wed Feb 15, 2012 4:49 am

JStanley wrote:How does ASP enhance the PSP user experience?

If you take PSP as JASC left it, Corel have added new aspects / features, two of which I don't use as they are flawed if not broken.

The first is Raw Conversion. ASP enhances the PSP user experience with this alone.

The second is the (dis)organizer / Manage Mode. ASP enhances the PSP user experience by providing a workflow where you can manage and edit multiple photos.

Neither of these preclude the use of PSP as an Image eEditor.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby df » Wed Feb 15, 2012 5:39 am

JStanley wrote:I'm sorry, but after reading through this entire forum thread, I don't see why a PSP user should love ASP.

How does ASP enhance the PSP user experience?

ASP simply gets the files in a state that you can work on them in PSP. But you've already been doing that some other way all along. If that other way was the pits then this fills the void.

The goal of course is to eliminate the need for PSP for those shots that ASP's tools are capable of handling, theoretically speeding up your process. But if you're like me you've already got another solution for that and this is just something new to learn.

From a PSP user's perspective (who isn't even fond of ASP) the main gist of it all is (and mostly not from this thread):
  1. Non-destructive. They'll beat that one till the cows come home. It will never save over the original file and will only add a secondary file to the same folder telling the program what changes/edits to make when you decide to output the file.
  2. Speed. When you actually do output your files it will zip along and be done in no time.
  3. Pipeline, which is the order that the edits will happen in. Often you'll see in forums or blog postings to eliminate the noise in the beginning of your workflow along with correct for color, with your sharpening last. With the pipeline that's already thought out and planned for the best outcomes.
  4. Undo/edit further anything. With the pipeline and the secondary file of edit commands in place you can undo whatever you want in your history of just slide the slider back to where it was to begin with or move it to a different position.
  5. It works on just about any system. Windows, Mac, Linux.
  6. It has better cataloging features than PSP does.

Now after saying all that I'm still just not as overwhelmingly impressed as I had hoped to be. Maybe I just had too high of expectations. I'm sure the Bibble people don't see a need for PSP much.
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What I really need is a workflow...

Postby bobbert » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:20 pm

Which product do I use as a digital asset manager and how do I go back and forth??

ASP doesn't see pspimage or psd files, and PSP's catalogue is not quite up to snuff as an asset manager especially when compared to ACDSee. I'd love to stay in the Corel family, and I'd be willing to drop ACDSee if the Corel products were better integrated.

So the best I can do right now is swallow hard and use PSP's catalogue, open RAW files in ASP, develop them and save as TIFF files, THEN do the fancier layers and Topaz processing back in PSP.

My workflow now is find, open and develop in ACDsee, save as hi quality jpg or tiff and finish up in PSP. A simpler workflow, and often I don't have to go to PSP as the developed files in ACDsee suit my purpose.

Do you think that ASP will ever recognize at least Corel's own file formats? Will it ever be a good DAM? If so It is worth the full price!
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby afx » Wed Feb 15, 2012 12:36 pm

As AS runs rings around ACDSee and PSP for raw files, that makes it worth it.
The DAM component is a joke. Just ignore it.

chers
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby grahamh » Wed Feb 15, 2012 1:36 pm

The DAM component is a joke. Just ignore it.


That may be the case but none the less it should at least be capable. Whilst not able to compete with dedicated DAM software it should cope with the needs of those users who like me need a simple and reliable catalogue.

I hope with the new Corel expertise and resources this can be resolved after all, unlike raw development database solutions have been around for years. I am also unhappy with the way keywords are used when using keyword manager - it just seems over complicated, same goes for lens recognition which imo should offer the user a simple way to relate asp to the actual user lens needed.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby tomsi42 » Wed Feb 15, 2012 6:44 pm

df wrote:ASP simply gets the files in a state that you can work on them in PSP. But you've already been doing that some other way all along. If that other way was the pits then this fills the void.

The goal of course is to eliminate the need for PSP for those shots that ASP's tools are capable of handling, theoretically speeding up your process. But if you're like me you've already got another solution for that and this is just something new to learn.

---8< snip 8< ---

Great summary.

df wrote:Now after saying all that I'm still just not as overwhelmingly impressed as I had hoped to be. Maybe I just had too high of expectations. I'm sure the Bibble people don't see a need for PSP much.

Bibble was never a Wow product; you needed to work with it to get the best out of it. But after learning it, I find the competition lacking.

For me Aftershot is a major improvement on Bibble 5, mainly because of the better support of my cameras. Other people, only see it as a make-up exercise as Bibble5 supports their cameras well. I do believe that a few service packs will fix the remaining issues and make Aftershot the product we wanted it to be.

I don't see ASP as a replacement of PSP, nor do I see any reasons for merging the two products. I do think that PSP is a good companion to ASP and will buy a license some time in the future.
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Re: a PSP guide to loving ASP

Postby bobbert » Wed Feb 15, 2012 11:27 pm

All I want ASP to do is recognize file types other than RAW and jpg... pspimage is a must, PSD would help those who use Adobe products. Others here may suggest other file types; personally I don't use PNG files. But a catalogue should be just that - able to recognize every image file of any type in every folder and simply apply, keywords, categories ratings etc. ASP just needs to see all the file types for starters.
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