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Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby texascbx » Tue Feb 19, 2013 7:20 pm

It might have not been up to Corel. Noise Ninja is dead and now with Photo Ninja taking it's place and far surpassing Aftershot Pro, I see why either by design or not, Corel removed Noise Ninja.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby Ianr » Wed Feb 20, 2013 7:06 am

Well if neat Image noise reduction could be added ... that would be wonderful .... I own both noise reduction systems and prefer Neat Image far more than Noise Ninja .... heres hoping something can be organized.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby afx » Wed Feb 20, 2013 8:11 am

That PictureCode tries to protect their turf is understandable.
That Corel does not act in time to provide an alternative is not acceptable.
After all, they have known this for quite a while.

cheers
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby ormdig » Wed Feb 20, 2013 2:33 pm

Ianr wrote:Well if neat Image noise reduction could be added ... that would be wonderful .... I own both noise reduction systems and prefer Neat Image far more than Noise Ninja .... heres hoping something can be organized.

Ianr, how do you like Neat image? I have had to give up (temporarily I hope) on ASP, it just can't process my D800 files without getting slower and slower and finally stopping. i might revert back to the last version at some point to see if it will work. I have been using Nikon's VNx2 with good results for just simple processing, especially color rendition, but it doesn't contain noise reduction. I shoot lots of small gym/poor lighting sports and while ISO 4000 with the D800 is not bad at all. if I want to print larger than 11x14 the noise will show up. Capture NX2 gives good results but they haven't done anything with it in ages and the UI is awful. The other editor that seemed promising but over time I haven't much cared for what happens to the flesh tones upon sharpening is Photo Ninja. So am in kind of a limbo right now. I looked at the web site for Neat Image but don't recall if it supported tiffs. Does it work ok on jpegs and do you lose much resolution? Does the batch processing give good results on similar images or do you have to use it only on almost identical images? Thanks, Pete.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby Ianr » Wed Feb 20, 2013 10:21 pm

Neat image works on Tif's and Jpegs, and works very well. One needs to play with it, to see what parameters matter to the images one works with. The results are very good indeed, but what I would like is for Aftershot to embrace it so that it can work on the RAW files. Resolution loss is not an issue for me as the gain in overall image quality is very good indeed. There is also a checkbox for sharpening to offset resolution if that is necessary, but I only rarely use it. I have not had the need to batch process as I tend to work on the best selected images, but it would be fine on a group of similar images that say have the same ISO for example.

The image is split into Y Cr CB ( or RGB ) and one can see where the noise is in each image breakdown, and then apply noise reduction in each breakdown separately. Once one gets the results that work best for a particular camera/iso setting then it can be saved as a preset, and tweaked if required on a particular image.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby AsterixEtObelix » Sat Feb 23, 2013 11:16 pm

Well, there is not only a single vision for the futur for customer.... If you began to process some raw file your are not sure that in 5 years you ll be able to work again on it because ASP will not been maintain or will be dead, or will not handle the camera. BUT NOW you are not able to process again the pictures from the PAST, because functionalities are removed...

Well done Corel :twisted: , that s a good way to keep photographer happy, to have a decent workflow, and to have a long term perspective with your software.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby Dutchmm » Sat Mar 02, 2013 1:12 pm

AsterixEtObelix wrote:....

Well done Corel :twisted: , that s a good way to keep photographer happy, to have a decent workflow, and to have a long term perspective with your software.


Are you sure they do sarcasm in Canada A&O? Or even that anyone from Corel reads this forum? And even if they do, what evidence is there that they give a ****?
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby andrewh » Wed Mar 13, 2013 11:35 am

ormdig wrote: The other editor that seemed promising but over time I haven't much cared for what happens to the flesh tones upon sharpening is Photo Ninja. Thanks, Pete.


Have you used the Portrait preset in Photo Ninja and been cautious with the detail slider? I started with some problems but am now very happy with PN - indeed I bought a licence yesterday. So much less work and so much better support than ASP. If you are having problems, just drop an email to support and they will come back with suggested workflows to reduce your problem. When I asked about manipulating curves, they came back with some simple suggestions that mimic the results really well.

HTH
Andrew
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby ormdig » Wed Mar 13, 2013 3:06 pm

andrewh wrote:
ormdig wrote: The other editor that seemed promising but over time I haven't much cared for what happens to the flesh tones upon sharpening is Photo Ninja. Thanks, Pete.


Have you used the Portrait preset in Photo Ninja and been cautious with the detail slider? I started with some problems but am now very happy with PN - indeed I bought a licence yesterday. So much less work and so much better support than ASP. If you are having problems, just drop an email to support and they will come back with suggested workflows to reduce your problem. When I asked about manipulating curves, they came back with some simple suggestions that mimic the results really well.

HTH
Andrew

Hi andrewh, I tried all kinds of settings with PN and while it gave pretty good results for most situations it wasn't stellar. I tried out a bunch of editors and ended up trying DxO's Optic Pro 8 and was wowed by what it did with my D800 files. I ended up buying it. Lot of money but well worth it to me. I had put off trying it because all the reviews I read said you have to, essentially, import into "projects" which I didn't want to do. However I found out I can reference my files from my database and don't have to import anything. IQ is fantastic and batch processing is the easiest I've found yet. I do a lot of 6-700 image folders (sports) and selecting and processing flies. It doesn't have a lot of bells and whistles but for my needs it's great. I keep checking the forums here hoping Corel will do something with ASP as I loved some of the plugins but my IQ is far better with DxO. Pete.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby ChrisC » Thu Mar 14, 2013 9:29 am

ormdig wrote:Hi andrewh, I tried all kinds of settings with PN and while it gave pretty good results for most situations it wasn't stellar. I tried out a bunch of editors and ended up trying DxO's Optic Pro 8 and was wowed by what it did with my D800 files.
Hi ormdig
Interesting because my experience was the other way around. Maybe I haven't invested enough time or the different camera profiles do make a difference!?
Anyway - as Aftershot is not supporting my camera model I had to look for a different raw converter. I tried LR, DxO and CaptureOne - the results have not convinced me and the workflow/user interface experience was underwhelming compared to Aftershot.
I ended up buying a PhotoNinja license because of the superior results I got (finally I switched to shoot solely RAW). Now I am also waiting for iMatch 5 to arrive because using ASP for cataloging my images doesn't make sense.

What a pity! I really love the speed and workflow flexibility of ASP.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby Fraenzken » Thu Mar 14, 2013 12:40 pm

Has anyone of you stored an old installer (1.1.0.30)? I was forced to buy a new computer and would like to keep Noise Ninja (I even bought a license for Noise Ninja in the olden golden Bibble days...).

Thanks in advance!
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby coolrat » Thu Mar 14, 2013 5:05 pm

Interesting because my experience was the other way around. Maybe I haven't invested enough time or the different camera profiles do make a difference!?
Anyway - as Aftershot is not supporting my camera model I had to look for a different raw converter. I tried LR, DxO and CaptureOne - the results have not convinced me and the workflow/user interface experience was underwhelming compared to Aftershot.
I ended up buying a PhotoNinja license because of the superior results I got (finally I switched to shoot solely RAW). Now I am also waiting for iMatch 5 to arrive because using ASP for cataloging my images doesn't make sense.

What a pity! I really love the speed and workflow flexibility of ASP.


Hi Chris, I'm using ASP now but also finding that it simply is not capable of properly cataloguing nor does it have a good method for adding nested keywords. Like many other ASP fans, I fear that the program will be abandoned by Corel and am seeking out an alternative. I have about 50,000 photos, most of which are directly related to my phd research on the revival of folk customs and martial arts societies in rural China. I was using the keyword manager to create keyword tree-lists, but every time I re-organized the keyword trees, the assigned keywords were messed up. Additionally, ASP does not seem very adept at allowing the user to create detailed, nested keywords and apply them easily. The catalogue feature in ASP was also not useful to me- it corrupted many times, and everything I added to it was lost.

I have been doing manual correction of photos in AfterShot Pro, and am quite pleased with its results and UI, but have found it painfully slow to correct each photo one by one. I was never able to find any way to make the process faster (occasionally I was able to copy and paste edits to photos shot under similar lighting conditions) Perhaps there is no other real solution other than to edit one by one.

In an attempt to speed up my workflow, I tested DXO Optics 8 and found that its automatic adjustments were, in most cases, quite satisfactory. It seemed quite capable of handling cases of serious underexposure, blown-out skies and details, high-ISO noise. (though I was not crazy about the fact that the colours were far less vibrant than the original RAW files.

Because DXO Optics Pro8 is rather expensive, I'm wondering if PhotoNinja offer ability to automatically process/adjust most of my RAW photos with similar automation and accuracy? A more automated tool would greatly speed up my work ahead.

Lastly regarding using a DAM tool, the PhotoNinja website,claims that PhotoNinja works well with PhotoMechanic- using PhotoNinja as the RAW converter and PhotoMechanic as the DAM. Would PhotoMechanic be a better DAM tool or iMatch? I'm also very interested in iMatch because I need to have a robust, future-proofed DAM tool to add keywords, star-rankings, make categories, enable searches, and have off-line (disconnected from external harddrive) cached catalogues stored on my notebook so that I can show other researchers.

I'd like to hear more about other's comments and suggestions.

Its my fondest hope however, that Corel will release an updated version ASP so that I needn't switch to any other product. I'd be more than willing to pay an upgrade fee, or even buy an entire new version of ASP.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby ferdinand-paris » Thu Mar 14, 2013 10:41 pm

coolrat wrote:Lastly regarding using a DAM tool, the PhotoNinja website,claims that PhotoNinja works well with PhotoMechanic- using PhotoNinja as the RAW converter and PhotoMechanic as the DAM. Would PhotoMechanic be a better DAM tool or iMatch?

I profess near total ignorance of PM, but I didn't think it was classed as a DAM. I'd sure you can enter keywords and other metadata, but my understanding it that it is folder-based. Are you able to operate on images across disparate folders?

F_P
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby ChrisC » Fri Mar 15, 2013 9:08 am

Hi
Let me share my thoughts about some of your points...

coolrat wrote:I was never able to find any way to make the process faster (occasionally I was able to copy and paste edits to photos shot under similar lighting conditions) Perhaps there is no other real solution other than to edit one by one.
If I understand your needs correctly, you are searching for an automatic way to get ready to use pictures. In my experience (Nikon) this is best accomplished using the camera manufacturer tools (e.g. in camera jpgs or their raw converter).
If you need usable pictures quickly after the shoot -> JPGs.
If you have time to process them -> RAW
If you want to get the best out of your pictures I don't know any way other than treating them individually.
But you can make things easier by trying to produce very consistent (lighting, color) conditions so you can apply the same settings to a serie of images (sometimes it is more important to be consistent than to get the lighting/color exactly perfect for every single image).

coolrat wrote:I'm wondering if PhotoNinja offer ability to automatically process/adjust most of my RAW photos with similar automation and accuracy? A more automated tool would greatly speed up my work ahead.
For the cameras that are supported by PhotoNinja there are build-in profiles and some clever algorithms trying to deliver best out-of-the-box results. Those are at least good starting points but you should try it yourself to see whether it is sufficient for your needs.
With PhotoNinja you can copy and paste settings similar to what can be done in ASP and with the latest beta PhotoNinja also offers a 'Batch render' feature.

coolrat wrote:Would PhotoMechanic be a better DAM tool or iMatch?
From what I have read about those tools I would guess that iMatch has the better DAM features even given that the new PhotoMechanic also has a 'catalog'.

coolrat wrote:Its my fondest hope however, that Corel will release an updated version ASP so that I needn't switch to any other product. I'd be more than willing to pay an upgrade fee, or even buy an entire new version of ASP.
I share this spark of hope.
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Re: Update 1.1.1.10 removes Noise Ninja

Postby Hobgoblin » Fri Mar 15, 2013 4:52 pm

Fraenzken wrote:Has anyone of you stored an old installer (1.1.0.30)? I was forced to buy a new computer and would like to keep Noise Ninja (I even bought a license for Noise Ninja in the olden golden Bibble days...).

Thanks in advance!

http://www.aftershotpro.com/testbuilds/
I think this is the same as the released version!
R.
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