NEW! PhotoMirage

VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Discuss anything about video editing, HD, codecs, etc......

Moderator: Ron P.

VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Wed Feb 18, 2015 9:25 pm

Working on a Dell XPS 8300, i7-2600 CPU 3.40GHz, 16GB RAM, Windows 7 Home Premium, 64-bit & starting the arduous process of transferring hundreds of VHS, Hi8 and DV tapes to digital (not to mention 8mm & Super-8) & want to do this right. Don't mind spending money on the right gear to get this done (to a point) but do NOT want to purchase multiple cheap products & end up frustrated. Current computer does not have a firewire port but does have slots for a PCI Express Card. Plan on purchasing VideoStudio Ultimate X7 to get this done. Looking for suggestions on a route to go.

I guess i need;
- a firewire Card
- a top notch video capture card (I've read that many drop frames, leaving the audio/video tracks out of sync)
- a program to get all this stuff straight onto my hard drive

I know I am in for countless hours of work so I want to go about this the right way from the start.
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby Ken Berry » Thu Feb 19, 2015 10:16 am

... hundreds of VHS, Hi8 and DV tapes to digital (not to mention 8mm & Super-8)


Well to start off, DV tapes are already digital. But that being said, the following comments apply to them as well since you are well aware that you really require Firewire to capture them properly, in other words in the best possible quality. And that is the thing. For all of the formats you mention, even including VHS, IMHO you are best capturing all of them using Firewire and capturing them, to start off with at least, in DV/AVI format. If you can get a PCI/Express card with a Firewire port or ports, or better still, if your motherboard has the necessary slots, a proper Firewire card, then you have at least the basics for good capture. Even an older computer with the necessary slot on its motherboard will do... As it is, I have a now 7 year old computer which used to be my main editing computer (a 6600 processor) which has a Firewire port and is more than powerful enough for both DV and HDV. And I also have an i3 which is slightly newer, but which also has a Firewire port and is also happily up to the job! But then, on top of that, you need an actual capture device to connect to whatever Firewire port you might have or be able to connect.

There are a number of good Analogue via Firewire to Digital capture devices out there. Personally, a few years ago now, I bought specifically for this purpose, and not to film, a Sony Digital 8 camcorder which uses firewire for capture, and it allows me to insert analogue 8 and Hi 8 tapes directly into it for capture via Firewire. For VHS tapes, I connect an old and increasingly rare VHS player via RCA plugs to the AV slot in the Sony camcorder and that works too to capture via the Sony connected via Firewire to my computer. The quality via the RCA cables might not be quite as good as direct capture from 8mm/Super 8 tapes played in the camcorder, but not too bad either and certainly much better than via USB capture devices (which I also have).

Oddly enough, in all of this, the DV tapes might be your problem if, as I guess, you don't have or no longer have access to, a DV camcorder, since those tapes won't play in the Sony (far too small) or in other DV capture devices, or at least those of which I am aware. For those you actually need a DV camcorder or even a HDV camcorder connected via Firewire. But if you can borrow one, that would be good too. (I'm lucky since I also have a rather oldish Canon HV20 HDV camcorder which uses those same DV tapes and connects via Firewire...)

As for the rest, you can do a Google search for the various DV capture devices, apart from the sort of Sony camcorder I mentioned, that might be able to capture from those sorts of tapes, though getting players capable of playing those sorts of tapes apart from the sort of camcorder I mentioned, might be increasingly difficult. Canopus used to be the Rolls Royce of these devices, though I have no idea of their availability these days...
Ken Berry
User avatar
Ken Berry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 20138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Levin, New Zealand
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: Intel NUC7i7BNB J31145-306
processor: Core i7-7567U + 32 GB Optane
ram: 8 GB
Video Card: Intel Iris Plus 650
sound_card: Realtek High Definition Audio
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 2TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Kogan 28" 4K 3840 x 2160
Corel programs: VS 2018; PSP 2018; MS3D; ASP 3; DRAW 17

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Thu Feb 19, 2015 5:22 pm

Thanks much! So, I have just ordered these 2 items;
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/van ... c71bbben02
http://www.bestbuy.ca/en-CA/product/cor ... 021fc9en02

I am hoping the PCI Express firewire card will get my DV to the hard drive (I do have an old Panasonic PV-DV601-K & firewire cable luckily). I am concerned that I may need Panasonic Software to do this & that there may be drivers that are no longer available. Do you think that will be a problem? I do have the original Panasonic disc (ArcSoft). Also, should I wait for Corel VideoStudio X8 & pay $40 more do you think? I am experienced with editing & want a stable software package that will give me everything I need make high end amateur videos, but I don't need professional perfection. Does X8 offer any huge benefits in terms of stability & speed on my i7 do you think? I think it is due out in a week or so?

Or am I wrong...You say; " But then, on top of that, you need an actual capture device to connect to whatever Firewire port you might have or be able to connect." Does this apply to the DV tapes? I thought I could just attach the firewire to the Panasonic camera & then to the newly installed firewire port & do the transfer. Is that not right? Or do you mean for the others (VHS & Hi8)? Since the DV Tapes are digital, should they not just go through the firewire without another capture device?

I don't have a Hi8 camcorder (it was stolen), so I would need to purchase one. Suggestions? Hi8 is analogue, as far as I know. Can they be played in your Sony Digital 8 camcorder which uses firewire for capture?
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby Ken Berry » Thu Feb 19, 2015 7:41 pm

X8 is now available, though I suspect your current needs will be well met by X7.

And yes, I was really talking about a device to capture the non-digital tapes i.e. not the DV ones. If your Panny still works, that should be all that is required for the DV footage. For those other tapes I bought the Sony Digital 8 which I mentioned, and it plays analogue and digital 8mm tapes directly, as well as Hi8. It also acts as a pass-through capture device for VHS tapes as I described. The Sony I bought was the DCR-TRV480E. I doubt very much whether any digital 8 cameras are still available new, but you might find some on-line second hand. However, you would need to do some research on which specific models will perform as mine does since only some of the Sonys have the ability to play analogue tapes directly. Otherwise, you would need to search for a device such as the Canopus ones I mentioned, though they used to be quite expensive. I have no idea if any are still available commercially, though you might luck out with a search for a second hand one.
Ken Berry
User avatar
Ken Berry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 20138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Levin, New Zealand
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: Intel NUC7i7BNB J31145-306
processor: Core i7-7567U + 32 GB Optane
ram: 8 GB
Video Card: Intel Iris Plus 650
sound_card: Realtek High Definition Audio
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 2TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Kogan 28" 4K 3840 x 2160
Corel programs: VS 2018; PSP 2018; MS3D; ASP 3; DRAW 17

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Thu Feb 19, 2015 9:01 pm

Very helpful! I feel like I am making quick progress with your kind help.

I have decided to buy a digital 8 camcorder similar to what you have.
The fact that I can possibly get all my Hi8 & VHS (still not really clear on how this would work for VHS - I guess this is why I need pass-through?) tapes digitalized this way makes it worth the effort & expense.
Now I need to know which digital 8 camcorders allow pass through via firewire so that i can begin my search. Do they have internal TBC's?
Your Sony DCR-TRV480E did the job for you. Any idea how/where i would get a list of camcorders with this pass through capability?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Just searched & found a page: http://forum.videohelp.com/threads/2855 ... i8-ability
that lists these;
- Sony DCR-TRV480
- DCR-TRV120
- TRV-828
- TR7000 or TR8000 ..can anyone else who knows from experience confirm that the Sony DCR TRV 7000 has analog to digital passthrough?

and this:

compiled a list of Digital8 camcorders with the analog passthrough feature when I was looking for one. There may be a few more; if you know of one let me know. The key words in the manuals seem to be "signal convert" while in their marketing they use terms like "analog-to-digital pass-through".

This is for NTSC. The PAL variants with "E" on the end of the model name may or may not be the same.

Pass-through

2000
DCR-TRV120
DCR-TRV320 (same manual for both)
DCR-TRV720
DCR-TRV820 (same manual for both)

2001
DCR-TRV230
DCR-TRV330
DCR-TRV530 (same manual for these three)
DCR-TRV730
DCR-TRV830 (same manual for both and the 828, which doesn't seem to exist in NTSC form)

2002
DCR-TRV240
DCR-TRV340
DCR-TRV740
DCR-TRV840

2003
DCR-TRV350

2004
DCR-TRV460

2005
DCR-TRV480 (no S-Video)

No pass-through but sometimes claimed to (non-exhaustive)

DCR-TRV260
DCR-TRV280
DCR-TR7000

Is this accurate & complete? And do brands other than Sony make these?
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby Ken Berry » Thu Feb 19, 2015 11:07 pm

Glad you compiled that list as I really could not have helped on that -- it has been years now since I bought my Sony. I am not even sure how many other camcorder makers might have produced Digital 8 cameras, let alone ones with Firewire. Firewire was really jointly developed by Sony and Panasonic, though ended up in DV form in many other brands. Sony calls its Firewire "i-Link"...

As for capturing VHS tapes, as I said in my first post above, I play those in an old VHS player/recorder which I connect using its RCA outputs, and a special cable you can buy which has RCA plugs (red, white, yellow) at one end, and a single 12 mm plug at the other end which goes into my Sony's AV socket. By the way, S-Video is only usable if the VHS tapes you have were actually produced using S-Video.

And passthrough is only really necessary for the VHS tapes if you get a Sony Digital 8 which, like mine, takes analogue 8 mm and Hi8 tapes. Those play directly in the camera, so in that sense they are not using passthrough.
Ken Berry
User avatar
Ken Berry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 20138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Levin, New Zealand
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: Intel NUC7i7BNB J31145-306
processor: Core i7-7567U + 32 GB Optane
ram: 8 GB
Video Card: Intel Iris Plus 650
sound_card: Realtek High Definition Audio
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 2TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Kogan 28" 4K 3840 x 2160
Corel programs: VS 2018; PSP 2018; MS3D; ASP 3; DRAW 17

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:26 am

Can I run an my JVC VHS-C Camcorder (1986 model still playing) to my Canon DV Camcorder via S-Video (they both have S-Video connections & the original tapes were shot on the JVC) & then on to my computer via firewire from the Canon & successfully capture to my hard drive in digital that way?
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby Ken Berry » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:00 am

I have no idea. You can but try it yourself -- though as I said above, if you are trying to play tapes that were not originally recorded using S-Video, then you are likely to have trouble -- usually black screen but with audio... However, with the setup you suggest, I simply have no real idea...
Ken Berry
User avatar
Ken Berry
Site Admin
 
Posts: 20138
Joined: Fri Dec 10, 2004 9:36 pm
Location: Levin, New Zealand
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: Intel NUC7i7BNB J31145-306
processor: Core i7-7567U + 32 GB Optane
ram: 8 GB
Video Card: Intel Iris Plus 650
sound_card: Realtek High Definition Audio
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 2TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Kogan 28" 4K 3840 x 2160
Corel programs: VS 2018; PSP 2018; MS3D; ASP 3; DRAW 17

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby skier-hughes » Mon Feb 23, 2015 10:34 am

I suspect the s-video will be out only, it was on most camcorders, but worth a try.
skier-hughes
Microsoft MVP
 
Posts: 2688
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:09 am
Location: UK
operating_system: Windows 8
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: gigabyte
processor: Intel core 2 6420 2.13GHz
ram: 4GB
Video Card: NVidia GForce 8500GT
sound_card: onboard
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 36GB 2TB

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby BrianCee » Mon Feb 23, 2015 11:47 am

But do remember that s-video does not carry sound - you will need additional sound cables.
My VideoStudio demo videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/MrBrianCee
BrianCee
 
Posts: 5407
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:04 pm
Location: London England UK
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
ram: 8GB
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 4TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: HP
Corel programs: VS X4,X5,X6,X7,X8, X9, X10

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Mon Feb 23, 2015 3:56 pm

Thanks all. My PCI Express video card should be here in a few days but dug out my old JVC Camcorder in the meantime & it does still play the old tapes so the idea to do this occurred to me.
I'll give it a try when I install the card (using the S-Video & regular Audio-thanks Brian) & let you know.

Just found this bit of info on which Sony Video 8 Camcorders are digital (not necessarily pass-through), if anyone else is looking.
Here is the Sony link I took it from; http://esupport.sony.com/US/p/select-sy ... ODTYPE=135

DCR-TR7000
DCR-TRV103
DCR-TRV110
DCR-TRV120
DCR-TRV130
DCR-TRV140
DCR-TRV230
DCR-TRV240
DCR-TRV250
DCR-TRV260
DCR-TRV280
DCR-TRV310
DCR-TRV315
DCR-TRV320
DCR-TRV330
DCR-TRV340
DCR-TRV350
DCR-TRV360
DCR-TRV460
DCR-TRV480
DCR-TRV510
DCR-TRV520
DCR-TRV525
DCR-TRV530
DCR-TRV720
DCR-TRV730
DCR-TRV740
DCR-TRV820
DCR-TRV830
DCR-TRV840
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Fri Feb 27, 2015 1:43 pm

Received my firewire card yesterday & installed it. My Corel VideoStudio Ultimate X7 will be here today.
I did get my Panasonic DV Camera to work & the PC picked it up by I have 2 questions;
- Can I get the video to the PC without software (Panasonic supplied sofware is useless)
- If I do require software & use Corel, can I still save my video as raw footage on my hard drive outside of Corel?
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby BrianCee » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:10 pm

Yes you should be able to use VideoStudio to capture your video over firewire.

When you capture video using any means the video is not *in* VideoStudio - it is in whatever folder (on your hard drive} you specified within VideoStudio when capturing and is only linked to Videostudio - you can thus access it in any other software you wish to.
My VideoStudio demo videos - https://www.youtube.com/user/MrBrianCee
BrianCee
 
Posts: 5407
Joined: Sat Jan 21, 2012 1:04 pm
Location: London England UK
operating_system: Windows 10
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
ram: 8GB
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 4TB
Monitor/Display Make & Model: HP
Corel programs: VS X4,X5,X6,X7,X8, X9, X10

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby skier-hughes » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:30 pm

Not "WITHOUT" software, you need to sue some form of it.
Here's how to do it with windows
http://myvideoproblems.com/Live/Capture_Minidv.html
Although you may well find it is now just called photo gallery, rather than windows live video acquire wizard :)

There is also windv a small free programme that you can use. Very good
http://myvideoproblems.com/WebPages/Use ... rammes.htm
skier-hughes
Microsoft MVP
 
Posts: 2688
Joined: Thu Jul 21, 2005 10:09 am
Location: UK
operating_system: Windows 8
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: gigabyte
processor: Intel core 2 6420 2.13GHz
ram: 4GB
Video Card: NVidia GForce 8500GT
sound_card: onboard
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 36GB 2TB

Re: VHS, Hi8, DV to Digital

Postby hab » Fri Feb 27, 2015 3:28 pm

Thanks for the quick responses.

I will install Corel VideoStudio Ultimate X7 shortly & try the import from that. Is there a particular format I should import in (MPEG 2/3/4, AVI, AVCHD etc?) or do I even have a choice?
My goal is to import my 25-30 DV tapes, edit them down, render and keep both the rendered video(s) & the raw footage on a hard drive, and the rendered final movies on dvd(s).
I assume because it isn't HD that 16:9 & AVCHD would be out?
hab
 
Posts: 52
Joined: Sun Jul 06, 2014 1:50 am
Location: Canada
operating_system: Windows 7 Home Premium
System_Drive: C
32bit or 64bit: 64 Bit
motherboard: ACPIx64-based PC
processor: Intel i7-2600
ram: 16.0 GB
Video Card: AMD Radeon HD 6670
sound_card: AMD High Definition
Hard_Drive_Capacity: 3.40HHz
Monitor/Display Make & Model: Acer X243W

Next

Return to VIDEO & DVD

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest