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Forcing me to burn in Pal

Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby atwsportscast » Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:08 pm

I have a 23.976 file that I am trying to burn to blu-ray using video studio x9 version 19.6.0.1. When I go to settings and project preferences and change it to 23.976 then go to Share and select blu-ray its forcing me to burn it as Pal. When I go down to project Settings in the DVD/Blu-ray authoring window it says HDMV-PAL and it does the same thing when I set it to 24fps. When I go to setting and options it says PAL. I change that to NTSC. Then when I go back to settings and options it has flipped it back to PAL. When I go to settings and project preferences and change it to 29.97 then go to Share and select blu-ray it then shows HDMV-NTSC in project Settings in the DVD/Blu-ray authoring window however when I go to add/edit chapter it is making me edit and add chapters in a 30fps format instead of 24fps bc it ticks to 30 instead of 24. I checked do not convert mpeg conpliant files and ignored that it was saying HDMV-PAL and burned the disc. The disc will not play in my blu-ray player.Why cant I burn 23.976 in NTSC?
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Re: Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby lata » Sat Feb 04, 2017 4:06 pm

Hi
Unfortunately there is a problem in burning Bluray discs using 23.97fps.

Please report this to Corel Support, the more people complain the better chance they will fix this.

Please read this post regarding the issue
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60778&p=336497&hilit=23.976#p336497

I was able to burn a disc, or at least a Bluray folder and use 23,97fps.
I have to say I did not check the menu fps.

OK

First you must convert your project /video to use Bluray compliant at 23.97fps.
Then from a new project, nothing on the timelines do Share – Disc – Bluray, which opens the burner module.
Add video, adding your compliant video/s
From Project Settings, make sure Do Not convert Compliant MPEG files, ignore the other settings for Change Mpeg Settings.
The only other settings you may use is the Navigation controls.
Create your menu
From the last window choose to create a Bluray Folder. Saves creating those coasters.
When you press Burn the process should start with Create Menu
If you see Convert Title then something is wrong as the video is being converted, cancel the burn.
When complete view the BDMV folder – Stream folder contains the video, check the properties of the video, make sure it uses 23.97fps.

I then use a program called ImgBurn to burn that BDMV to disc

I would suggest you run this process with a short test clip (to save time) to prove it works
I will run through the process just to confirm I have things correct.
Regards Trevor
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Re: Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby Davidk » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:38 am

In the olden days . . frame rates were keyed to the powerline frequency, which was the method of synchronising Old Style TV imagery. NTSC - 60fps because the powerline was 60hz, and PAL - 50fps, powerline 50hz. Since each frame is exposed twice in display, that yielded a frame rate of 30 (29.97 eerkkk) or 25 for NTSC and PAL respectively.

Modernising to the digital age, and sync to powerline not really required, but the display standards exits and display imagery generally conforms because of the wide variety of display platforms in the wild, as it were.

So, from the discussion and references, 23.97fps (call it 24) seems to go with a very hi-res 4K (as in 4k pixels in the horizontal direction per frame) image. Why is it so? or in other words what benefit accrues from changing the frame rate by such a minute amount for the 4K images?
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Re: Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby atwsportscast » Mon Feb 06, 2017 5:45 am

I used Imgburn and I followed the steps it gave me to burn the folder I had created to blu-ray disc and it still would not play in my blu-ray player. When I set the timeline Project Properties...project format bluray.....29.97fps. It did burn a working copy of my 23.97 fps video in 30fps. I know its 30 fps bc when I add chapters a second is made up of 30 frames instead of 24. What negative effect will this have on my video. Did it duplicate frames or did it simply speed my video up slightly. Also what could I have done wrong for my blu-ray play not to have played the blu-ray that I used Imgburn to burn. I did everything Imgburn ask me to do and videostudio did not ask me to convert when I made the folder.
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Re: Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby lata » Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:27 am

Hi atwsportscast

From the original post
viewtopic.php?f=1&t=60778&p=336497&hilit=23.976#p336497
I did contact Corel informing them of a problem with burning 24fps Bluray compliant video., and indeed have also contacted them again after your post.

I would urge you to do the same and contact Corel support.

I see a few issues here.

1 / the burner authoring nor the program does not fully support 24 fps, although a workround can create the Bluray folder using 24fps.

After creating that Bluray folder BDMV folder, view the Stream folder the first video is your movie, that can be added to Video Studio timeline to check its properties being 24 fps.
The remaining files are the menu and will be using 29 fps. Not a problem as far as I know in mixing those frame rates.

2 / The Pal to NTSC issue, I do not see that, being in the UK my program is installed as Pal, although I did convert to using NTSC to replicate your files, and still no Pal to NTSC conflict.
But it could be just that which is causing the disc not to play.
Using DVD Players in the UK will play both Pal and NTSC discs, well most do, I do not think DVD US players would do that as they do not support Pal.

3 / Converting your 24 fps to 29 fps, the program will add duplicate frames, approx. 1 in 5 to increase the frame rate from 24 to 29, keeping the playback speed the same.
Yes you may see that as a slight plip when playing the movie, more noticeable when panning the video. Again you can play the Stream folder file on pc to view the quality before committing to disc.

OK
I have not burnt a disc only created that Bluray folder, and if it is a Pal Ntsc issue causing the disc not to play, it would play for me as my system uses Pal.

4 / atwsportscast I do not think you are doing anything wrong in using ImgBurn.
It could be when burning a 24fps disc that the discs header details are being written as Pal, whilst using 29fps are written correctly as Ntsc.
I cannot prove that, just an assumption.
If so most in the US will have the same problem, I am a little surprised that there have not been more reports, unless users have not noticed the auto change from 24fps to 29?
Regards Trevor
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Re: Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby atwsportscast » Mon Feb 06, 2017 2:59 pm

Thank you for your help. Hopefully this will be fixed in x10. Im only using 23.976p bc from everything I have read 29.97 is not a blu-ray standard and 1 of my cameras I use will not shoot above 29.97p.
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Re: Forcing me to burn in Pal

Postby lata » Mon Feb 06, 2017 3:05 pm

Hi

Hmmmm.....29.97 fps x 1920 x 1080 is indeed Bluray standard and can be burnt to a Bluray Disc.

Just to qualify that, the frame order has to be Interlaced not Progressive.
For Progressive Bluray compliant use 1280 x 720 x 29.97P

Maybe its the Progressive re Interlacing you have read?
Regards Trevor
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