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MPEG encoding and advanced settings PROBLEM SOLVED

MPEG encoding and advanced settings PROBLEM SOLVED

Postby Radioman62 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:47 pm

Hi all

This is a new thread, stiched, clipped an paste, from my own replys from other threads.
It's time to really nail this one down, because I'm sure I'm not alone.

Black is not all black when encoded to mpeg2, making DVD's. Same as it was way back in 2005 and forward. At least on my TV set. Panasonic PAL. I these days have a new 42" flatscreen Panasonic compared to my old 4:3 "fat TV set" Sony Trinitron. The same experience.....
I want the same look, contrast and colors, as with the DV tape straight to the TV set, even if there, offcource, could be some artifacts from the encoding itself.

Here is my almost 6 years old thread on that problem.

There was a thread once, I can't find now. Seems to be erased. I have it on paper though. The subject was MPEG encoder settings in VS11+
The starter of it was Jack_HDV and replys came from vidoman, Ken Berry and etech6355.
The tip in there was to add the Advance=1 in the uvs.ini file under the subject [viodriver]. I have tried this on the new Corel VS X4 but to no sucess. The mapstructure is also a bit different in W7, users vs. document and settings.
The meaning with this added line was to get another button "advanced" under the tab "compression" and be able to change "primary colors" via a dropdown list.

Anyone remember this? Does anyone knows here how to do it in Corel VS? Is it maybe something that shouldn't be doable in VS, because of licence payment to the company Mainconcept who has done the encoder. VS should maybe only have the "light" version"?
Just before this new thread I managed to encode with an older version of Canopus Procoder v.2, with perfect result as it comes to black and white and also a bit stronger colors. It's so much easier if we could get the same result withing VS.

Anyone knows what I'm talking about?
Last edited by Radioman62 on Sat Aug 06, 2011 3:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Ron P. » Fri Jul 29, 2011 12:52 pm

I just answered that other post. The Advance=1 in the uvs.ini file's [VIODRIVER] section does not work with any version of VS newer than VS X2.
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Ron P. » Fri Jul 29, 2011 1:22 pm

Hey I found where Corel tried to hide the same settings of the uvs.ini file for VS X4. Those settings are now found in C:\ProgramData\Ulead Systems\Corel VideoStudio Pro\14.0\GG_App.ini. You will first need to change the permissions for that file. To do so simply right-click on the file select Properties, go to the security tab. Then highlight your user name, and click Edit, then in the next dialog, at the bottom, check the box for Allow.

Now open the GG_App.ini file, scroll down to the [VIODRIVER} section, and add the line Advance=1. You should now get the Advanced button which opens the MPEG Output dialog window.

Here's a link to Terry's information on using the MPEG Output dialog;
viewtopic.php?p=49645#p49645

Video Tutorial on how to get the "Advanced Button" in VS X4
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:16 pm

Thanks Ron, you are a very dedicated VS user :D
I have just arrived to my home from a "garden party" with a lot of "refreshment drinks" and need to take a closer look tomorrow, if you see what I mean. :mrgreen:

This will be of great interrest to test. See you all toorrow.
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Ron P. » Fri Jul 29, 2011 10:17 pm

I see, I just came back inside from working in my garden. The temperature is around 100 deg, and I think I would like some of those refreshments now..:lol: :lol:
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby erdna » Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:25 pm

I suppose the "refrechment effects" are gone now..so just one remark: as far as I know one cannot change the black level by adjusting the codec properties. Once the analog video signal has been digitized, only the DC precision in the DCT table can be adjusted. in mpeg compressors. Changing the GOP structure in MPEG wil not change the black levels. I think that black levels have to be adjusted with the TV brightness setting. Especially when DV (via Y/C connection) has to be matched with MPEG replays (via...?)
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:12 pm

Hi erdna
As far as I know there isn't any analog signal involved in my videos at all. Not from my Mini DV camera and not when captured to the PC.
If I have a good DV source I would not like the MPEG encoder to trash the contrast. Change TV settings everytime I look at my own homemade movies is not an option, period.

I have allready tried an old Canopus Procoder MPEG encoder with perfect result, so there is something wrong with the inbuilt one in VS. But where can I change the chroma settings? Maybe one could try to change the DC preset settings and do new encodings? I don't know what DC preset settings do and all tis takes time to test out.
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby erdna » Sat Jul 30, 2011 6:49 pm

Hi radioman, I don't try to tell you that there is analog stuff involved. I just say that because of that (the A/D conversion has been done in the camcorder), you can't change black levels anymore. You can of course change the brightness (=black level) and contrast in the VS editor as you know. This is not done by the encoder settings, but by just processing the video signal.
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:36 pm

I wonder if those contrast settings go through to the encoded material, when it comes to what the black level should be? I can test and test and test and not rely on what the program tells me how it looks. What you see is NOT what you get.I have to do the full encoding before I can see the "real" result. This is ridiculos :?

In the Mainconcept standalone encoder I have from around 2005 there is settings very much alike the ones that is in VS, exept that I can choose to tick "input video is RGB 16-235". If I recall right this is the setting I want unticked in VS but the option is not there.
I get flashbacks as I write about this problem. I'm sorry I didn't document exactly all of my finding back when I did descent videos 2007. I think I didn't use DD 5.1 and had to choose other MPEG converters to reach my goal. It would have been so easy to just use VS when everything I need is under the shell.
I have tried Adobe Premier and didn't like it at all. Higher steep of learning and really several amasing bugs that got me totally flabbergasted.
Thanks for bearing with my moans and groans :oops: I like VS since the first version I tried, version 5. If they only could fix the quality of the DVD encoding. Maybe the DVD encoding is an outdated video-format to update? Is there anyone more then me doing DVD's? None at all? :lol:
Last edited by Radioman62 on Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:49 pm

erdna wrote:Hi radioman, I don't try to tell you that there is analog stuff involved. I just say that because of that (the A/D conversion has been done in the camcorder), you can't change black levels anymore.

The black levels are perfect after that when I look at my captured DV file (avi), so I don't need to change the black level do I? Do you follow? The MPEG encoder in VS changes that and it sucks and this time I would really try to find the sollution to why. I will never buy this version X4 before I do. And I maybe have to give it up this time again..... :cry:
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Sat Jul 30, 2011 8:51 pm

So I finally nailed what the problem is. Input video is RGB 16-235 need to be ticked, as in the available option in the standalone Mainconcept encoder. This option is not present under the same tab in VS, even if we manage to get the "advanced button" through hacking the INI file.

So whats up now? Try to convince Corel about this? Anyone care to maintain power for that? You may need Obi Wan Kenobis slogan "May the force be with you" to have sucess I guess? 8)
Attachments
VS_advancedt_settings.png
VS available settings under the same tab when "Advance=1" is set.
Mainconcept_settings.png
RGB settings ticked in the Standalone Mainconcept encoder
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby erdna » Sat Jul 30, 2011 9:18 pm

I am still convinced that also VS uses the ITU 16-235 YUV colorspace by default when it detects digital video (why shouldn't they do otherwise?). Only when it detects PC graphics it will encode the 0-256 range. The level range remains confusing. My Samsung 50" Plasma TV has a "black low" selection to solve this problem.
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:16 am

Hi
I don't know what "ITU 16-235 YUV colorspace " means, exactly. BUT, I have done the "try and test and try again until you find the error test" and found the settings needed, so I don't need your thoughts about convinced ITU 16-235 YUV colorspace setting by default convincement. I now know where the error starts in VS DVD encoding. Even if I also are surprised that Corel and Ulead have wrong settings by default. And about your statement around the ITU 16-235 YUV colorspace "why shouldn't they do otherwise?" Ha ha, yes thats the big Q :lol:
I only know that all my, and my near family TV sets, PAL in Sweden (but nowdays the TV's take any standards you throw at them), shows the same washed out videos made with VS.

The auto "black low level" selection, you mention, is new to me. And how about 2005? When I first discovered this big time messed up encodings? Did anyone tell you that you should buy a "black low level aware TV set" those days?

I have a 16:9 Tv set now but my videos are 4:3 so the black bars at the side together with the dark-grey background in the movie (where it should be black in my opening sceenes of every video) clearly tells me the difference in black/white range. I was glad to find the 16-235 setting, which is the problem you not can change within VS. And they use the same encoder! The German Main Concept MPEG encoder.
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Posts: 72
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby Radioman62 » Sun Jul 31, 2011 12:22 am

One more thing about this.

When I watch my MPEG encoded mpeg files in windows media player they all look good. It's only when I burn them to DVD's and then play them back as DVD movies, the black level issue shows it's ugly face. Which gives .. ? I don't know.

Thanks for reading// Ove Tegnér
Regards // Ove Tegnér
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Re: MPEG encoding and advanced settings (black level)

Postby skier-hughes » Mon Aug 01, 2011 1:56 pm

VS is an entry level hobbyist editing suite, costing £60.
Canopus procoder is a professional encoding programme, costing £400 and does just one little piece of what VS does.

You've got to expect some differences in what they do.

As you have an early version of procoder I'd use that to make my mpeg file, it'll do a far superior job than anything else.

Then use VS to author your dvd.
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