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Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Fri Oct 05, 2018 7:50 pm

Hi all

There appears to be very little information in the manual about "Shooting Date/Time" in respect to aligning video clip in the Multi-Camera?

What video formats support "Shooting Date/Time" time code aliment?

I have 3 video cameras (Canon MF105) all genlocked but it appears that video studio doesn't support Shooting Date/Time with MXF file formats?

Image

Thanks
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Fri Oct 05, 2018 8:12 pm

Doing some research

My best guess is that "Shooting Date/Time" is supported with DV cameras?

DV cameras support either raw DV stream, AVI, WMV or QuickTime

Do all these formats/containers support "Shooting Date/Time"?
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby lata » Sat Oct 06, 2018 9:11 am

Hi
Not really noticed that option but would think it of little use.
The idea of MCE is to sync video recordings that were taken recording the same scenes.
I don’t see how Shooting date and Time can do that unless all cameras have their time set to one frame accuracy?
Maybe I have the wrong idea of that function.
The audio option would be my first choice, then markers where a clapper board or flash has been used to mark the recordings.

Where cameras have been locked together recordings would start at the same time, so syncing the clips would not be required, they would already be in sync.

Are you having any problems in using your 3 cameras recordings?
Regards Trevor
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Sat Oct 06, 2018 10:50 am

"Where cameras have been locked together recordings would start at the same time, so syncing the clips would not be required, they would already be in sync."


No

My cameras are gen-locked but the record button for each camera has to be manually pressed. They all have different start times but the time clocks are exactly the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genlock

Are you having any problems in using your 3 cameras recordings?


I've used one of the other methods to sync the video.

I've gone to all the trouble to sync the cameras so I want to use a feature that exists.

I'm fast coming to the conclusion that nobody ever uses the "Shooting Date/Time" feature?

Its highly possible that that this feature does not even work?
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:16 am

This is the reply from Corel

I have checked regarding this with the next level team and found that if the file has time code stream then there is no way open it in the Videostudio.


After some time I suspected this might be the case

My guess is when you are importing DV footage you can manually set a time code.

Seams like a pointless feature?
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby asik1 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 4:56 am

"Shooting Date/Time — Click the Sync button to synchronize the clips according
the shooting date and time as indicated by the metadata recorded by the camera.
Note: The clocks must be in sync on the cameras to get accurate results"
- From PS22 pdf.

I just did a short test with that, using my MTS files, and it's working
MCE.jpg

As you can see I loaded 3 files I shoot at event, (single camera) once I selected 'Shooting Date/Time' they been placed on the timeline relatively to their Date/Time time.
As VS is not for "professionals" using 2000$ and up camcorders it do not read LTC.
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby weaver » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:24 am

ispyisail wrote:
My cameras are gen-locked but the record button for each camera has to be manually pressed. They all have different start times but the time clocks are exactly the same.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genlock




Genlock and timelock is not the same issue. Genlock synchronizes just the videosignal time base but not the time recorded on the cameras. Genlock is important for a multicamera live editing in studios, live transmission etc, but not aonymore for offline editing like VS. All off-line editors synchronize the video (genlock) automatically.
In digital world, the importance of genlock is marginary as almost all devices in video chain have its own time base corrector (TBC) what takes care about the video synchronisation. This of course introduce some delays in signal processing, but this is a secondary issue. That is why today you can mix video signals almost in any format (25i,29,97i,50p et,)
A time synchronisation (timelock) is usually an independent timecode generator, its signal is recorded simultaneuosly in each device (cameras and recorders, and you are right, DV was probably the last format having embedded time recording track).
The new recordings on different memory cards usually do not have the time synchronisation feature, as the saving/processing time is off-line and each device has its internal time information ( time setting on the camera) but this clock does not have an external genlock or synchronisation input. (We are talking about commercial devices). The time recording on one of the audio channels would be an option, however most of the modern cameras use audio compression, what may introduce audio delay and other problems for a real timecode based synchronisation.
The idea of sorting the recordings on time line is nice, but I do not think that it is very practical, because if your cameras are individually started you will get lot of rubbish there. In such events I always record everything in whole length on all cameras ( my biggest project was 6). At the beginning I try to get some sync scene like the clapboard and place all recordings on the time line, search for the clapboard and shift all recording to the same time. Very useful is the audio view fir this job.This synchronizes all recordings and I can cut among the camera signals.
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby asik1 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 7:31 am

Weaver, the 'genlock' port used there as input for slaved LTC, and must be set as Free Run.
MXF container can have LTC, VITCas well as userbit like the good old days...

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r122.pdf
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:32 am

Genlock and timelock is not the same issue


Yes I am aware of this, I was using Genlock as a loose term.

My mixer has the Genlock signal and the timelock is set on the cameras before start.

For this project I didn't take my mixer so only timelock on free run.

Disappointing that VideoStudio can't pick up MXF time code :(
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:39 am

using my MTS files


What are MTF files?


Videostudio does try to sort MXF files, They are close but not useful as they are out
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby ispyisail » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:40 am

As you can see I loaded 3 files I shoot at event, (single camera) once I selected 'Shooting Date/Time' they been placed on the timeline relatively to their Date/Time time.


How to you know if they are exactly in the right place?
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby asik1 » Thu Oct 11, 2018 9:43 am

mts's are the video files that our "common people's" camcorders make :lol:

** The earliest file is set at 0 on the time line, than the other at the correct interval and so on.
Next time when you shoot the same try to set your clocks together (best as midnight 000000) and you will be just within 1 sec sync error at most.

***Can you upload for us 15 sec MXF (can be just 9MB/s) file with timecode? say start it at 11:11:11:00 so we can try it in other NLE's?
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby lata » Thu Oct 11, 2018 10:53 am

ispyisail wrote:How to you know if they are exactly in the right place?


Hi
Not having multi cameras to test the MCE I used video samples.
The original samples were from 4 cameras linked together so when hitting record all cameras started at the same time, audio sync being achieved I do not know what equipment was used to do that?
All 4 recordings having the same audio so syncing within MCE was not necessary.

For this test I have rendered sections from the original videos to create out of sync clips
Effectively recording starting at different times.
Using MCE scans the clips and positions them in sync, in this example syncing to Camera 1.
We can view the wave form to identify / see the sync results, to me looks pretty accurate.

MCE sync clips.jpg
click image for larger view
Regards Trevor
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Re: Multi-Camera and Shooting Date/Time

Postby weaver » Thu Oct 11, 2018 1:25 pm

asik1 wrote:Weaver, the 'genlock' port used there as input for slaved LTC, and must be set as Free Run.
MXF container can have LTC, VITCas well as userbit like the good old days...

https://tech.ebu.ch/docs/r/r122.pdf



That is correct but you need the LTC time code generator and some distribution network for that and a genlock port input on cameras.
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