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Inserting music into timeline position

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Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Davidk » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:29 am

Regularly, I need to insert a music clip into the music track in a specific time line position. But no matter what I do with the time marker when doing this, it always goes immediately after the last music clip in that track - meaning I then need to spend time, often quite a lot of it, dragging the clip either forward or back into the time position I want it to be. This happens in every version I've used so far (X5 thru X9) and it's getting tedious, so old.

Is there any way to set a music insertion up so it goes into the track at the desired time position?
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby MrJohnny » Fri Aug 18, 2017 11:43 am

Hi David

Good question.

When you say Time Marker, do you mean the little green pyramid that appears above the Timeline when you click on that area? Have searched the pdf Help file, most marker references are associated with Trim Markers.

Have been frustrated myself when I have positioned the CTI (Scrubber/PlayHead) where I want something inserted only to find the CTI jumps about to a different location when attempting to insert - so not sure I have cracked the logic behind that.

Anyway, I'm sure you know this, but normally I now insert the video/audio/graphic into a library, then drag and drop with much more precision and certainty where I want it.

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby gewb » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:37 pm

Just insert a timeline marker (green triangle) where you want the new sound clip to begin. Insert clip on the music track and drag to the marker, then drop. Done, accurate to the individual frame.

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Ken Berry » Fri Aug 18, 2017 7:47 pm

gewb wrote:Insert clip on the music track and drag to the marker, then drop.


As I understand it, David already does this, but it is precisely this that he is complaining about -- having to drag it from its default position bang up against the end of the last audio file when you insert it in the timeline... Like David, I too get annoyed when I have to do this each and every time, but it is something I have learned to live with over the years...
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby gewb » Fri Aug 18, 2017 8:15 pm

Hello Ken -
Then I'm not understanding David's process correctly. When I inset a sound clip I drag it down from my resource library and drop it in the desired place. What do you mean by "default position" when adding the clip? I don't seem to have the snap-to issue he described. So far I can add a sound clip anywhere I desire - snapped-to the last, in a quiet hole between two clips, at or near the start...

(Then again I'm not that well versed in using VS.)

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Ken Berry » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:03 pm

Yes -- you have your sound clips in a library window, as does Mr Johnny above. But some (many?) of us, me included, don't create special sound libraries for projects. For instance, I use Sonic Fire Pro for most of my video music as I have a large SmartSound disc library (which Sonic Fire is made to edit). And when I have edited a piece of music and export it, I go to successive versions of Video Studio and right click in the audio timeline, select Insert Audio and navigate to where the exported music file has been stored, and select it. The audio goes right to the very start of a project if there is no audio already in the timeline, or else sits flush against the last audio clip which is already there. That is what David and I are talking about.

Yes, maybe we should be creating audio libraries for each product to save the hassle. But to me this is just a couple of extra steps to create the library and later delete it when it's no longer necessary. Mind you, you could say the same about the extra work we give ourselves with our own method of having to drag the inserted audio clip to where we actually want it! :roll: :wink:
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby gewb » Fri Aug 18, 2017 10:32 pm

Ken Berry wrote:... I go to successive versions of Video Studio and right click in the audio timeline, select Insert Audio and navigate to where the exported music file has been stored, and select it. The audio goes right to the very start of a project if there is no audio already in the timeline, or else sits flush against the last audio clip which is already there. That is what David and I are talking about.


"I see!" said the blind man as he picked up his hammer and saw.

Thanks for the explaination.

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Davidk » Sat Aug 19, 2017 1:43 am

Hi Guys,
Thanks for the replies.
Like Ken, I've lived with the drag the clip scenario for years, but it's just got so annoying I thought I'd ask if anyone had an answer - after all, an inserted voiceover file goes in the voice track where the timeline marker (that small white square with down arrow on the bottom that follows the time along the scale above the tracks when playing) is, so it doesn't seem a great stretch that the music track should be the same . . . except that it's not.

Gewb, those little green triangles you mention above the timeline are chapter points, and they get used when creating menus in the final shared version. It's real easy to insert one - just mis-position the mouse pointer slightly (eg, when dragging the timeline marker) and click, and you have one. To remove, choose chapter points from the settings list and delete one or all.

The library is easy to use for materials that are in it, and you can set up library structures for projects. But if you want to know where things are on a PC, having them in the library actually makes it harder to find any particular one, particularly if you have LOT of stuff saved over the years. So, like many others I don't use the library for my materials much. Mostly, with painting creator effects, snapshots and similar one time items. Because I find students constantly complain of losing track of where their materials (clips of any sort, pictures, music et al) are, the very 1st thing in class that I emphasise is establishing a file structure where they all are that the user finds easy to remember - and then use it. Thus, music in specific drive or folder system, etc. To insert, simply navigate to location and choose.

But regardless of the method used (drag and drop from library or insert a file) the result is the same - music gets inserted in the music track after the last music clip you have there, regardless of where the timeline marker is. Unlike voiceovers. I guess there isn't a method, or Ken would have highlighted it. And I've about given up suggesting use (as opposed to new features) improvements to Corel - in 10 years, they've only accepted 2, and lately (last 3+ years, change of personnel perhaps) they rarely give any indication of listening.
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby gewb » Sat Aug 19, 2017 3:15 am

Hello David and Ken -

Davidk wrote:Gewb, those little green triangles you mention above the timeline are chapter points, and they get used when creating menus in the final shared version.


That I did learn but I also learned the snap-to value of the marker as I posted above.

Davidk wrote:The library is easy to use for materials that are in it, and you can set up library structures for projects. But if you want to know where things are on a PC, having them in the library actually makes it harder to find any particular one, particularly if you have LOT of stuff saved over the years.


Comes down to workflow and organization methods. I learned decades ago to create separate project folders/repositories regardless of the project/medium/etc. Twenty plus years as a technical communications specialist (technical writer on steroids) taught me that valuable lesson. Load all project related resources to the specific project resource repository. Duplication (times "x"?) make no difference as storage is cheap but organization = time = money and lower stress. Key is the concept of Windows libraries ("borrowed" from Apple) - that's why it is easier for me to create a project resource directory, copy the elements into it (them), then add them to the project library.

Davidk wrote:But regardless of the method used (drag and drop from library or insert a file) the result is the same - music gets inserted in the music track after the last music clip you have there, regardless of where the timeline marker is.


I haven't had that problem as I create and use the chapter points as snap-to markers (which can be deleted later).

Then again, my projects/workflows/etc. may not incorporate the degrees of sophistication of yours so I may be over simplifying based on misunderstandings.

Davidk wrote:And I've about given up suggesting use (as opposed to new features) improvements to Corel - in 10 years, they've only accepted 2, and lately (last 3+ years, change of personnel perhaps) they rarely give any indication of listening.


Sigh - sounds like Adobe when I was a beta tester for RoboHelp (over 10 years as a tester). Once every other release they would listen and fix a problem.

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby lata » Sat Aug 19, 2017 7:26 pm

Davidk wrote:But regardless of the method used (drag and drop from library or insert a file) the result is the same - music gets inserted in the music track after the last music clip you have there, regardless of where the timeline marker is. Unlike voiceovers. I guess there isn't a method, or Ken would have highlighted it. And I've about given up suggesting use (as opposed to new features) improvements to Corel - in 10 years, they've only accepted 2, and lately (last 3+ years, change of personnel perhaps) they rarely give any indication of listening.


I have to disagree....

When I Drag and Drop any type of clip audio, Image, video to the overlay tracks they are dropped at the curser position.
If I have used a Chapter point as a marker then the curser will "Snap_to" making my drop accurate.

Only if I choose to right click a clip and "Insert To" will it drop to the right of any existing clip, probably not where I need it, and that has been an issue for a while.
There should be an option for "Right Click Insert to curser position"

But "drag and drop" from the library is no problem for me?
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby MrJohnny » Sat Aug 19, 2017 10:46 pm

Hi Trevor

Agreed on all points.

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Ken Berry » Sun Aug 20, 2017 12:22 am

Just to be clear, I too have no difficulty dragging and dropping music from the library to specific places in the timeline. As I said above, it's just the need to put your music in a library that irks me...
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Davidk » Sun Aug 20, 2017 6:20 am

Great to see responses but we are getting a bit off the topic. I was concerned about inserting music into a specific place in the music track - not timeline, overlays, or others mentioned. And I've tried the chapter point marker technique discussed: create chapter point in a video clip, add music to the music track, and that location item doesn't work - it goes directly to either the start of track or the end of any existing music clip. On my machine, one hastens to add. There's no option to 'snap to' either - select the newly added music in track, rt click, no such option in the drop down list.

So, since I've asked and others seem convinced it can be done: how please (step by step would be appreciated)?
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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby MrJohnny » Sun Aug 20, 2017 7:13 am

Hi David

I cannot insert a music (audio) clip into anything but an audio track, or am I misunderstanding your previous comment?

I have searched the pdf Help File for references to "Snap" - this did not really help with the Snap-to function being referred to. So, here goes with my take on it:

Create the Chapter Marker where you want the audio file to start.
Now, position the CTI or what ever you want to referred to it as (ie time marker), at the Chapter Marker location.
From a previosly created library and previously populated audio file in that library, drag it down to an empty audio track and position the beginning of the audio file to line up with the CTI which was previously positioned through the Chapter Marker location.
It kind of snaps to the CTI/Chapter Marker position, drop the audio file there.
Now trim the audio file to fill the gap between the previously existing audio files/clips that are on the actual Audio Track you want the audio file to finally reside in. Highlight the newly trimmed audio clip and drag and drop into position, again lining up the beginning of the audio clip with the previously positioned CTI.
If there were no audio files/clips on the actual Audio Track you can go straight to it with your audio file, missing out the dropping on an empty audio track and trimming, etc. More difficult to describe than do.

Trevor's suggestion does it for me.

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Re: Inserting music into timeline position

Postby Davidk » Sun Aug 20, 2017 8:36 am

OK, more experimentation . . .
1. a mea culpa - I've just realised that the topic title could be understood to mean in the "real timeline" as opposed to a position in the music track related to a position in the timeline. But the 1st post description made that clear, I hope.
2. Thee all are correct - if inserting/dragging music from the library into the music track and using the chapter point marker and time marker together. It also works when dragging the music from the library to the voiceover track. Bear in mind that music and voiceover are both technically just audible sounds in a set sequence: 2 variants of the same signal type, even tho VS makes a clear distinction between them.
3. however, when inserting music from a non-library source (eg, rt click in the timeline workspace, choose insert audio, to either voice track or music track, and using the navigation panel to find the folder and file needed) that technique does not work. Ditto for inserting a voiceover file into the voiceover track from a stored copy in the media folders (often a voice recording can be used more than once in separate projects).

I created the media folders on the HDD on the PC for a reason: basically, one place for any media item - any programs that use it go there to get it. Putting all that data into a set of libraries in one version of VS would make it un-manageable - even more so with 3 or more versions of VS on the one PC. So I guess I'm just going to live with the tedium of insert then drag to the time position required.
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