Portraits look just awful in ASP -- anyone else see this?

[DanInSoCal]

Portraits are my bread and butter. I do a fair number of them. In B5 I used the Portrait look profile and it effortlessly generated nice, even skin tones, when I added a little saturation, contrast, and vibrance.

In ASP, however, when I adjust those three to get the colors more or less reasonable, the image is horribly contrasty. Faces and skin look awful.

I have seen several posts here regarding various band-aids (set this color down here; use this plugin with this tweak there... etc). I myself have tried tweaking the mid-range contrast with a custom Curves setting, but the results were still unsatisfactory -- unusable, really -- when compared to B5.

In ACR I can fix this by twiddling the mid-range contrast with the Clarity slider. Looks great, almost as good as B5.

Can we get a native solution for this? A "portrait" setting that Just Works?

Thanks,
Dan

[elslunko]

Give us an example!

Have you tried increasing the luminance of the orange channel? Should be able to accomplish it with the native Color Correction tool or Color Equilizer & Nuance Plugins.

I shoot portraits as well (Though haven't shot many as of late, mostly events) and have found the out of the box settings to be a little over saturated. So I bumped the luminance of those skin tones to bring them towards white and have been happy with the results.

[elslunko]

Hey Dan,

Not a native solution but I've been able to fix some nasty midtones caused by some blue-ish stage lighting by using Wavelet Sharpen's USM at radius 200 on clarity mode. Seems to do the same thing ACR's Clarity slider does.

[DanInSoCal]

Here is a typical example.

50D CR2 File: http://www.dangehlhaar.com/misc/IMG_1615.CR2

Settings for best image:

Bibble: Portrait Look Profile, exposure + 0.5, Contrast +21, Saturation +15, Vibrance +17
ASP: Exposure +0.5, Contrast +10, Saturation +10, Vibrance +10

Bibble JPEG: http://www.dangehlhaar.com/misc/IMG_1615_B5.jpg
ASP JPEG: http://www.dangehlhaar.com/misc/IMG_1615_ASP.jpg

The Bibble image is effortlessly clean with smooth skin tones. The ASP image has an intense harshness that I can't seem to get rid of.

If you can make the ASP image look like the B5 image, I will be very happy!

Dan

[afx]

ASP Contrast +10 when you think the image is already too harsh by default? Sounds strange to me.
I would not touch Saturation but use only vibrance.

But looking at this particular sample, I think the profile for the 50D should be redone.
Don't see that type of default rendition with my Nikons nor the Oly.

cheeers
afx

[ferdinand-paris]

I'm not doing a lot of colour portrait work at the moment, I work mostly in B&W. However, I did a small colour job a few nights ago under stage lighting using my new (s/h) D3s and I had a similar struggle with the ASP rendition. I know the Canon guys are happy with the new profiles, and AFX seems content with the Nikon ones, but to be honest I have to wrestle with colour more than I did with B5, and esp with skin tones, when shooting Nikon (D300, D700 and now D3s).

F_P

[AsterixEtObelix]

hi ,

well as I mention in an other post you can use 3rd parties plugin, and you can get nice results. I created for me a preset "skin" which use Bez and Color equaliser. of course I use also the contrast and luminosity.

here is my results (less flashy than yours because that s my preference) with the XMP file

[AsterixEtObelix]

Oups the XMP file is not authorized... so here it is

Code: Select all

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           bopt:Nostalgia.Nostalgia_indicator="false"
           bopt:Nuance.Nuance_enabled="false"
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           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkOn="false"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkHighlights="true"
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           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkL="0"
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           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkSat="0"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkC0L="0"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkC1L="0"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkC2L="0"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkC3L="0"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkC4L="0"
           bopt:SiliconBonk.SiliconBonkC5L="0"
           bopt:sadman.splittonion="false"
           bopt:sadman.splittonimono="true"
           bopt:sadman.splittonihhue="0"
           bopt:sadman.splittonihsat="20"
           bopt:sadman.splittonibalance="0"
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           bopt:sadman.splittonissat="20"
           bopt:sadman.splittonismooth="100"
           bopt:sadman.texaenabled="false"
           bopt:sadman.texa1on="true"
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           bopt:sadman.texa3on="false"
           bopt:sadman.texa4on="false"
           bopt:sadman.texa5on="false"
           bopt:sadman.texapreview1="false"
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           bopt:sadman.texapreview4="false"
           bopt:sadman.texapreview5="false"
           bopt:sadman.texaopacity1="100"
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           bopt:sadman.texaopacity5="100"
           bopt:sadman.texablend1="Normal"
           bopt:sadman.texablend2="Normal"
           bopt:sadman.texablend3="Normal"
           bopt:sadman.texablend4="Normal"
           bopt:sadman.texablend5="Normal"
           bopt:sadman.texae1="None"
           bopt:sadman.texae2="None"
           bopt:sadman.texae3="None"
           bopt:sadman.texae4="None"
           bopt:sadman.texae5="None"
           bopt:sadman.texatexture1="Original"
           bopt:sadman.texatexture2="Original"
           bopt:sadman.texatexture3="Original"
           bopt:sadman.texatexture4="Original"
           bopt:sadman.texatexture5="Original"
           bopt:sadman.texaplacement1="Fit"
           bopt:sadman.texaplacement2="Fit"
           bopt:sadman.texaplacement3="Fit"
           bopt:sadman.texaplacement4="Fit"
           bopt:sadman.texaplacement5="Fit"
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           bopt:sadman.texarotation2="Auto"
           bopt:sadman.texarotation3="Auto"
           bopt:sadman.texarotation4="Auto"
           bopt:sadman.texarotation5="Auto"
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           bopt:sadman.texamirror2="None"
           bopt:sadman.texamirror3="None"
           bopt:sadman.texamirror4="None"
           bopt:sadman.texamirror5="None"
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           bopt:sadman.texae1p2="0"
           bopt:sadman.texae1p3="0"
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           bopt:sadman.texascale3="100"
           bopt:sadman.texascale4="100"
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           bopt:zChannelMixerGroup.zcmbw="false"
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           bopt:zFramePlug.place="5"
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           bopt:blplug.bbwhueB="200"
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          </rdf:Description>
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        </rdf:Seq>
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</rdf:RDF>
</x:xmpmeta>


[ferdinand-paris]

I redid the ASP version of that colour job again and made two discoveries. (i) Certainly playing with vibrance helps. (ii) For anyone using Bez, it's worth experimenting with HCL mode - as HCL and HSL do render skin tones quite differently. (I wonder if I should have kept a LAB mode option.) Combining these two got me close to good skin tones quickly.

That shoot was under stage lighting. I also did a shoot today in natural (indoor) lighting, and I thought the ASP profiles were much better than B5 for general colour, and for skin tones in particular. So go figure. However so far I find ASP a touch warm for my taste in outdoor lighting.

F_P

[DanInSoCal]

ASP Contrast +10 when you think the image is already too harsh by default? Sounds strange to me.
I would not touch Saturation but use only vibrance.

But looking at this particular sample, I think the profile for the 50D should be redone.
Don't see that type of default rendition with my Nikons nor the Oly.

Point taken. I would love to see a new profile for the 50D, no matter what I do, ASP just looks awful. Should I file a bug report?

AsterixEtObelix: I will try those plugins and settings. However, clearly something is broken with ASP if it can't render skin well all by itself.

Ferdinand-Paris: What camera are you shooting with? Looks like this issue may be specific to skin tones on this Canon. Too warm? I'm certainly not seeing that!

Regards,
Dan

[afx]

I would love to see a new profile for the 50D, no matter what I do, ASP just looks awful. Should I file a bug report?

I think so...

Compared to what I seen in AS from my cams and others this looks way too contrasty...

cheers
afx

[ferdinand-paris]

Ferdinand-Paris: What camera are you shooting with? Looks like this issue may be specific to skin tones on this Canon. Too warm? I'm certainly not seeing that!

Mostly Nikons. That stage lighting shoot was a Nikon D3s. My comments about outdoor lighting was with a D300. I'm also playing with a new Sony NEX-7. I'm getting better results for the Sony out of ASP than I am from a certain other converter from a large digital image software company, but it's still early days.

F_P

[DanInSoCal]

I would love to see a new profile for the 50D, no matter what I do, ASP just looks awful. Should I file a bug report?

I think so...

Compared to what I seen in AS from my cams and others this looks way too contrasty...

I will do so tonight. It would seem "reasonable" -- to me at least! -- that the ASP folks would use a standard scene to test their profiles, which would include a set of skin tones, shades of grey, and colors of various saturations; and then the profiles would be tweaked to end up within some range on various calculated properties, e.g. contrast. I know that there are variations in the sensors, and that these differences would be highlighted at the extreme highlights and shadows. However, the midtone performance -- where it really counts for fine image quality -- should be made to be reasonably consistent.

Regards,
Dan

[DanInSoCal]

Ferdinand-Paris: What camera are you shooting with? Looks like this issue may be specific to skin tones on this Canon. Too warm? I'm certainly not seeing that!

Mostly Nikons. That stage lighting shoot was a Nikon D3s. My comments about outdoor lighting was with a D300. I'm also playing with a new Sony NEX-7. I'm getting better results for the Sony out of ASP than I am from a certain other converter from a large digital image software company, but it's still early days.

I have downloaded your settings and they make the skin tones look "better", perhaps even "acceptable", but I still prefer B5 for my portrait work. Hopefully "afx" is right and it's just a screwed up camera profile. I will file a bug report and hope that I see a marked improvement in a subsequent release.

Dan

[DanInSoCal]

Any idea about how long it takes to get a response? I filed a bug report a few days ago and haven't heard anything.