Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

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Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby MikeFromMesa on Tue Feb 21, 2012 9:29 am

I really like ASP and it has begun to replace Dxo Optics Pro has my main processing software, but it is annoying how bad the software is at identifying the lenses I use. With some of my lenses (Canon 15-85, Canon 100-400, Canon 50 f/1.8, Sigma 50 f/1.4) it has no problem, but for other lenses (Sigma 10-20, Canon 70-300 DO) it consistently identifies the lens incorrectly and I have to modify the lens database file to fix the issue.

I know the lenses it identifies correctly are unique in their focal lengths and/or ranges and those that it misidentifies are not unique, but why is it that Dxo can identify some lenses (like the Canon 70-300 DO) correctly and ASP cannot? And why, if it cannot identify the lens, does it not do as Dxo does and ask when it first sees the lens which one it is and then use that until told differently? Then I would not find myself having to manually apply the correct lens settings.

Or am I being unreasonable?
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby claudermilk on Tue Feb 21, 2012 1:33 pm

Nope, not unreasonable. I have never seen that Bibble has been able to accurately identify my lenses, and they aren't unusual models (Canon 24-70/2.8L, 70-200/2.8L, and Tokina 12-24/4). Fortunately, the Canons don't distort much, and when the Tokina's is apparent, it's usually on purpose.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby gregglee on Wed Feb 22, 2012 3:53 pm

If lens have the same id, which is often true with Sigma, choice cannot always be resolved by other parameters.

But you can edit the ASP text files where the lens info and ids are stored. This can change first choice by changing order. You can delete the lenses you don't own to make it simpler.

I'm not sure if this has been explained in ASP forum, but it is in Bibble5 form.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby Hobgoblin on Wed Feb 22, 2012 4:44 pm

gregglee wrote:<snip>
I'm not sure if this has been explained in ASP forum, but it is in Bibble5 form.


http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45194
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby Dutchmm on Thu Feb 23, 2012 3:22 am

Hmm

So I could delete many many lenses that I haven't got, and could never ever afford, from the profiles, and the pull-down list for correction would be a sensible size? Cool!

That's something AFX might want to mention in the next generation Survival Guide.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby MikeFromMesa on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:45 am

gregglee wrote:If lens have the same id, which is often true with Sigma, choice cannot always be resolved by other parameters.

I don't know if my lenses have the same id or not, but Dxo does not seem to have much trouble identifying my lenses when I use it. And, when it does, it acts sensibly. I asks which of several lenses this is and, if it sees it again, makes the assumption that it is the same lens. It assumes that it is reasonable to believe that I will not be using 2 different Sigma 10-20mm lenses, so when I use Dxo to process my images I don't constantly have to change lens settings in the software.

But you can edit the ASP text files where the lens info and ids are stored. This can change first choice by changing order. You can delete the lenses you don't own to make it simpler.

Yes and I have done this. My point is this should not be necessary. ASP should have some mechanism to take care of this issue. It would make the software easier to use and hence better.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby MikeFromMesa on Thu Feb 23, 2012 8:52 am

Dutchmm wrote:Hmm

So I could delete many many lenses that I haven't got, and could never ever afford, from the profiles, and the pull-down list for correction would be a sensible size? Cool!

That's something AFX might want to mention in the next generation Survival Guide.

There are details on how to do this buried in the posts here: http://forum.corel.com/EN/viewtopic.php?f=90&t=45219

That is how I was able to figure out what to change in my lens files to have ASP select the proper lens (for most of my lenses). I now have it working properly, but my point in this post was that it should not be necessary for me to have to fiddle with the database files to get something as basic as this taken care of. ASP should have some mechanism to take care of it either automatically or by allowing the user to select which of several lenses correspond to the one being used.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby marbly on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:25 pm

MikeFromMesa wrote:I don't know if my lenses have the same id or not, but Dxo does not seem to have much trouble identifying my lenses when I use it. And, when it does, it acts sensibly. I asks which of several lenses this is and, if it sees it again, makes the assumption that it is the same lens. It assumes that it is reasonable to believe that I will not be using 2 different Sigma 10-20mm lenses, so when I use Dxo to process my images I don't constantly have to change lens settings in the software.


Yes, PTLens is the same.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby MikeFromMesa on Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:39 pm

marbly wrote:Yes, PTLens is the same.

PTLens?

I know I'm showing my ignorance I don't know what that is. Could you please explain?

Thanks.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby SteveCase on Thu Feb 23, 2012 10:13 pm

MikeFromMesa wrote:
marbly wrote:Yes, PTLens is the same.

PTLens?

I know I'm showing my ignorance I don't know what that is. Could you please explain?

Thanks.


"PTLens is software that corrects lens pincushion/barrel distortion, vignetting, chromatic aberration, and perspective."

http://epaperpress.com/ptlens/
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby brucet on Fri Feb 24, 2012 1:11 am

Maybe Corel could simply give us an option to have 2 lists of lens. One as is. The other with our own lens listed. Then enable us to make 'our' list the default list. As we buy lens we add them to 'our' list. ASP could then simply look in 'our' list and pick the appropriate lens.

Or am I making it too simple?
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby andysalay on Fri Feb 24, 2012 4:26 am

brucet wrote:Maybe Corel could simply give us an option to have 2 lists of lens. One as is. The other with our own lens listed. Then enable us to make 'our' list the default list. As we buy lens we add them to 'our' list. ASP could then simply look in 'our' list and pick the appropriate lens.

Or am I making it too simple?


Very simple and effective solution.
It resembles well known two list boxes beside each other, with add/remove buttons in between.

I am wondering why this was not yet implemented.

Regards,
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby MikeFromMesa on Fri Feb 24, 2012 8:34 am

andysalay wrote:Very simple and effective solution.
It resembles well known two list boxes beside each other, with add/remove buttons in between.

I am wondering why this was not yet implemented.

Regards,
Andy Salay

Perhaps they will see these posts and understand the problem. That was my hope in making the original post.

I assumed that if I actually emailed them about it they would put it in the electronic round-file but if they saw it in the forum they just might pay attention and fix the problem.
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby afx on Fri Feb 24, 2012 9:47 am

MikeFromMesa wrote:I assumed that if I actually emailed them about it they would put it in the electronic round-file but if they saw it in the forum they just might pay attention and fix the problem.


You guys are all assuming that developers have an infinite amount of time....
As long as there are bugs to be fixed that have no workarounds, I would not count on anything getting fixed for which workarounds exist.

cheers
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Re: Why is ASP so bad at identifying lenses

Postby gregglee on Fri Feb 24, 2012 11:32 am

brucet wrote:Maybe Corel could simply give us an option to have 2 lists of lens. One as is. The other with our own lens listed. Then enable us to make 'our' list the default list. As we buy lens we add them to 'our' list. ASP could then simply look in 'our' list and pick the appropriate lens.

Or am I making it too simple?

Or more simply keep the one list but allow user to change the order so that owned lenses are at the top. Not that it is going to happen. Especially because you can already do this via support files.
=====================================

I realize it is not as easy as a gui interface, but you can accomplish the same thing by editing the text file lens lists. For example in Windows 7 64 the Canon lens list is at
C:\Program Files (x86)\Corel\Corel AfterShot Pro\supportfiles\Profiles\LensProfiles\profile_canonlenstable.txt.

These lens ids seem to mostly follow exiftool, the defacto "industry standard." You can find more info on exif and maker notes tags elsewhere on the exiftool site. Note that the X.Y lens id numbers is a convention invented by exiftool (which is say Phil Harvey) to sort lenses with same id. the value of .Y is arbitrary. All lenses starting with X report the same number in maker notes. (e.g. listed lenses 131, 131.1, 131.2, etc. all report 131.)

see also for links to other manufacturers and overview
http://owl.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/TagNames/index.html
http://owl.phy.queensu.ca/~phil/exiftool/index.html


All photo editors start identification with lens id. Some (apparently DxO in some cases) try to resolve between the lenses using makernotes or exif data. Bibble had implemented this, though it was not perfect. See for example this post from Jeff. I haven't tested whether ASP retained this or just looks at lens id. (I am still using Bibble waiting for the bugfix release of ASP.) In some cases the lens cannot be completely resolved due to identical max aperture and overlap in focal lengths. See Canon lens id 131 for example. DxO might only try when they have created a module for the lens. I have some Sigma lenses that should be resolvable, but have no module, and DxO fails to identify them.

While I'm at it, unlike DxO, ASP allows you to immediately add lens correction profiles that you have created using the manual correction tool. (I assume ASP also will, as Bibble did, create profiles from images you submit, though that requires waiting for the next release.) Lens profiles are stored (again using Canon as example) at
C:\Program Files (x86)\Corel\Corel AfterShot Pro\supportfiles\Profiles\LensProfiles\profile_canonSLR.txt, and
C:\Program Files (x86)\Corel\Corel AfterShot Pro\supportfiles\Profiles\LensProfiles\profile_genericSLR.txt.

The procedure and format is explained Here

To some degree DxO vs ASP is a philosophy difference. DxO does everything for you and bundles tools (lens modules include geometric, CA, vignette, etc) which means it takes longer for them to do, and you have to wait for their schedule. Support files in DxO are not accessible to users. ASP support files are stored as text files (the extension may be .txt, .ui, .batch, .js, .queue, .xmp, etc, but all can be edited with a text editor). So ASP allows you to add your own stuff immediately and to edit support files directly and with more flexibility, but you have to work a little harder.

edited to correct spelling.
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