DNG Bug?

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DNG Bug?

Postby wwinter86 on Thu Jan 26, 2012 6:02 pm

Hi,
I’ve just tried a trial of AfterShot Pro, but it does not support Fuji .raf raw file format, so I tried converting some of my .raf files to dng using Adobe DNG Converter.
However when I try to open these in AfterShot nothing happens and it just says 0 files.
Is this a known bug?

P.S I have tried more than one setting on DNG Converter such as dng 1.1 instead of 1.3 etc
I have also tried AfterShot on Windows 7 as well as on Mac OS X 10.7.3.
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby afx on Fri Jan 27, 2012 12:04 am

Converted DNGs are not supported by AS.

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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby wwinter86 on Fri Jan 27, 2012 7:56 am

Oh ok, I thought dng files were supported.
Or is it just converted ones which have a problem?
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby spoilerhead on Fri Jan 27, 2012 8:12 am

DNGs written by cameras on this list http://www.corel.com/corel/product/inde ... 70071#tab4
should be supported. Converted ones are (currently) not. I can understand that, as converted DNGs are "something", but vertainly not untouched RAW files. I nearly fell of my chair laughing, when i read that Adobe will now also support lossy DNG compression :roll:
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby claudermilk on Fri Jan 27, 2012 10:41 am

spoilerhead wrote:I nearly fell of my chair laughing, when i read that Adobe will now also support lossy DNG compression :roll:

Agreed. :roll: This completes the destruction of a good idea. I had such high hopes for DNG when they announced it. Then the whole idea got immediately corrupted and made pointless.
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby df on Fri Jan 27, 2012 11:18 am

So does no one have a solution for the person shooting with a Fuji camera?

PSP supports DNG format, as well as .raf format. http://www.corel.com/corel/product/inde ... 30078#tab5
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby claudermilk on Sat Jan 28, 2012 1:41 pm

Bug Corel to add support for your camera.
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby Palimpseste on Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:19 am

What is the solution porposed by Corel for the EX lightroom users to handle the converted DNG.

- Forget about all you pictures , working with adobe DNG was a sin and you should consider that as an expiation :wink:
- Use lightroom to convert the converted DNG is JPEG. What a waste !!!!
- ?

I have moved to ASP to manage my photo under lInux instead of Windows, but if at the end of the day I have to loose thousand of my pictures in the process, I will reconsider my choice.

If for "ideologic" reasons Corel doesn't want to support converted DNG they should at least propose a workaround tool of migration.
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby grubernd on Mon Jan 30, 2012 12:42 pm

Palimpseste wrote:What is the solution porposed by Corel for the EX lightroom users to handle the converted DNG.

- Forget about all you pictures , working with adobe DNG was a sin and you should consider that as an expiation :wink:
- Use lightroom to convert the converted DNG is JPEG. What a waste !!!!
- ?

I have moved to ASP to manage my photo under lInux instead of Windows, but if at the end of the day I have to loose thousand of my pictures in the process, I will reconsider my choice.

If for "ideologic" reasons Corel doesn't want to support converted DNG they should at least propose a workaround tool of migration.

call Adobe, tell them you want your RAW files back. :twisted:
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby afx on Mon Jan 30, 2012 1:04 pm

Palimpseste wrote:If for "ideologic" reasons Corel doesn't want to support converted DNG they should at least propose a workaround tool of migration.

No ideology needed.
They need to profile every camera twice if they want to support converted DNGs. Quite a resource drain.

It is your fault you threw away your originals, not theirs....

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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby AbeakerZ on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:28 pm

I knew there was a reason why I kept my .orf's when I was converting to dng so I could use CS3 for my E30. Save everything, hard drive space is cheap.
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby ashmoore on Wed Feb 01, 2012 8:59 pm

If you originally converted with the "embed original" option you should be able to get them back.
Check http://www.adobepress.com/articles/arti ... 3&seqNum=3

Of course this assumes that you converted them with that option.
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby claudermilk on Thu Feb 02, 2012 10:59 am

AbeakerZ wrote:I knew there was a reason why I kept my .orf's when I was converting to dng so I could use CS3 for my E30. Save everything, hard drive space is cheap.

Exactly! The RAW file out of your camera is your negative. As you say, storage space these days is cheap. I don't understand why anyone would delete the original files; yes, garbage that won't ever be "developed" gets trashed, but the keeprs? :?
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby bengelenburg on Fri Feb 10, 2012 1:28 pm

Hi,

The whole issue wit DNG for Corel/Bibble is caused by the complexity of DNG and the lack of features in the first releases of DNG. This probably has improved over time but still withholds me from using DNG and and I think also withholds Corel from incorporating converted DNG support into their ASP product.

As far as I understand it now (please correct me if I am wrong) when raw files are converted to DNG with default settings , raw sensor data is transferred into Linear DNG. You get from the raw sensor data (1 RGB value per photocel) to linear DNG (3 RGB values per photocel) by a proces called Demosaicing which the Adobe DNG converter does for you. You can tell the DNG converter to not produce linear DNG but that is an option you have to have specified while converting, even then the raw format is transferred to a file format called TIFF/EP. In Tiff/EP different Tags are used to describe the raw sensor data then in the original (Exif/DCF). Of course DNG offers the possibility to include the original raw file , and it claims that the raw file can be restored to the original. I have never tried so i am not convinced, even space programs fail due to software bugs. You can only loose your data once.

If you choose to use linear DNG you have handed over the demosaicing process to Adobe and denied yourself the opportunity to take advantage of scientific progress in the development of alternative demosaicing algorithms.

Tools like ASP, Aperture , ACDSEE Pro have their own demosaicing algorithm which as a raw developing tool is their main functionality. However it does not makes sense for them to write DNG, due to the different tag structure and raw linear produced these DNG would not display very well in Photoshop or PSP. ( they would not recognise the tags.

Reading a a non linear DNG would mean that due to the different tag/file structure an additional camera profile needs to be used for each camera ( multiplying all camera profiles and the amount of work associated with it). Reading a linear DNG would/could be possible,but like with jpeg and tiffs you would only have a limited amount of the editing functionality in ASP available, for example white balance correction is ( I think) part of the demosaicing.

Of course if you have included the original raw in the DNG, ASP could use that but then with all those options the processing of DNG in ASP would be immensely complex.

Basically for tools like PSP support of DNG is easier because they work on linear instead of raw data and still they numerous issues with it.

Regards

Bert
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Re: DNG Bug?

Postby pefunk on Fri Feb 10, 2012 4:14 pm

I asked for DNG-support back in 2006, as Bibble 4 didn't support Minolta MRW-files from the Dimage 7hi; I used RawShooter and later Lightroom 1. In December 2007 I did buy Bibble 4, because it seemed better than LR1 and I had meanwhile upgraded to the KM Dinage 200 that was supported by B4. But I still had to keep both programmes on my PC. A few years later LR made great progress and I upgraded to LR3, which then soon became my main Raw Converter, although B5 did suddenly support my oldest MRW files. In the process of switching to LR I converted all my files to DNG because I didn't have to care for sidecar files and I saved disc space (I did not delete the originals).

I keep a few original raws "active" to evaluate the progress that B5/ASP is making and if it one day surpasses the quality of LR4 I can switch again. Beeing able to work with my DNG-converted files would be a great help in that decision. I do not understand any of the technical details behind DNG (my fault), I look at the results (A3+ prints).

With other programmes (Qimage ultimate, LR, PS Cs5, RawTherapee) the results from DNG and original RAW look exactly the same, so whatever the technical differences they don't show im my samples.

I have tried quite a few programmes in the course of time. To my knowledge B5/ASP is one of the very few if not the only one that doesn't support converted DNG. Even open source (RawTherapee) and giveaway programmes (Google Picassa) support it. I would have thought that with Corel al the helm there would be enough manpower to tackle DNG support. So I put it on the wish list. If the religious leaders of the indipendent church of Bibble decide to keep DNG on the list of the deadly sins, .. oh well, so be it; not a single RAW will remain unconverted.

Peter
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