Noise Ninja

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Noise Ninja

Postby Fraenzken on Sun Apr 29, 2012 8:14 pm

Hello,

Noise Ninja seems to be poorly implemented in ASP/Bibble. Color noise reduction leads to severe color shifts in the shadows. The algorithm seems to average between noise and image pixels; the result looks distincly reddish/greenish. Funnily, turning NN off and denoising the rendered jpg in ASP/Noise Ninja leads to much better results.

Wavelet Denoise is much better in this respect; the results are very grainy though - I prefer the smoothness of Noise Ninja. Am I the only one to see this?

Cheers
Frank
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby larschristian on Sun Apr 29, 2012 10:20 pm

Haven't noticed any such problem with NN. Using registered with Canon 600D.
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby RobiWan on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:05 pm

Hi,

I'm not sure but I mean there was a NN BUG with some Cameras an dark parts of picture -> see some old posts in Bible 5 Forum.

Robert
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby grubernd on Sun Apr 29, 2012 11:53 pm

as RobiWan said..
so please tell us what camera you are using, provide an example if possible and even better submit that exact report to the surveymonkey.
use the Monkey to report bugs - include as much precise information as you can provide!
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby Fraenzken on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:50 pm

Here's a few examples (with the Olympus E-M5 and the Olympus E-620). The problem only becomes apparent when dialing up exposure (or lift the shadows). Which still is a bad thing because lifting the shadows makes the noise much more apparent, so noise reduction is important under these circumstances.
Attachments
+2ev NN on RAW_1.jpg
same setting, but NN applied to the RAW file
+2eV NN on JPG_1.jpg
E-620. RAW developped with ASP (with exposure dialed up two stops); jpg imported in ASP; Noise Ninja applied to the jpg
Last edited by Fraenzken on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby Fraenzken on Mon Apr 30, 2012 7:52 pm

... two more:
Attachments
+3eV NN on JPG_1.jpg
E-M5. RAW developped with ASP (with exposure dialed up three stops); Noise Ninja applied to the rendered jpg.
+3 eV NN on RAW_1.jpg
E-M5. RAW developped with ASP (with exposure dialed up three stops); Noise Ninja set to ON.
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby grubernd on Mon Apr 30, 2012 8:36 pm

i only have a few OMD5 files scraped off the various review-sites and i dont see a problem with noise ninja.

for one: pumping up any file by 3 stops is really stretching ones luck and image quality, too. using Coarse Noise has to average among large areas, otherwise it wouldnt be effective. for example using large values in Wavelet Denoise changes colors, too, and not by a little. expected behaviour for me. comparing a RAW and a JPG is always difficult using a fixed pipeline software like ASP, since you cannot simply skip certain stages that do something with the data..

e.g. NoiseNinja runs very early in the pipeline and before you push that file up.. even the tiniest of colorshift will be exaggerated. by comparing that RAW to a JPG, where you basically just shift the NN from an early stage to the end, the difference is expected.

denoisers are pretty good these days, but they cant perform magic.

PS: i am pretty impressed by the new oly.. if it would not cost more than a nikon D7000 i would love to expand my µ43 system with it (currently only a pana G2).
use the Monkey to report bugs - include as much precise information as you can provide!
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby Fraenzken on Wed May 02, 2012 10:17 am

... you're right, Bernd, it's not a very big deal. It can be annoying though.
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Re: Noise Ninja

Postby maggus on Thu May 10, 2012 7:33 pm

Hi Frank,

I get similar "bad" colors when I shoot in mRAW/sRAW with my EOS 60D ... even w/o NN ... but that´s off topic.
No, so far I could not observe these extreme color shifts with NN ... but would need to check if they are really not there. Maybe I´m a lucky guy or do not watch the results carefully enough !?

My experience with NN and WD is that on high ISO shots I get best results (regarding noise) when I apply NN + some WD (color only). On low & normal ISO (up to 800 ?) I apply only WD.
When I find some time I´ll create a thread about these results with the EOS 60D .... but I guess this doesn´t help you :oops:

BR
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