x2 & x3 - Not enough memory to complete operation

Postby samurai on Tue Mar 09, 2010 5:03 pm

Is there a size limit in Paint Shop Pro x2/x3?
I've been working with a 24"x36" object at 200dpi. If i try to resize it to 300dpi, I get the following error message:

Not enough memory to complete operation; close one or more documents or applications and try again. If this does not correct the problem, you may need to adjust your memory settings or work on a smaller document.

Thank you in advance for your assistance

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Postby LeviFiction on Wed Mar 10, 2010 1:38 am

Well an image that size PSP estimates requiring 101 MB of memory just for that image as it is.

When you say resize to 300dpi are you talking about only changing the resolution or are you taking about actually upscaling the image?

For example at 200dpi and 24''x36'' you have a 4800x7200 pixel image. If I only increase the dpi in the resize dialogue box and keep the inches then the image becomes a 7200x10800 pixel image.

This is obviously a really large image. Also because it's upscaling it has to examine all of the pixesl, build the image in memory (so it has to create a larger image in memory along with your already huge image) and try to fill in the gaps by mixing colors together as best it can. This takes quite a bit of memory to perform. Not to mention any undo/redo steps you require.

On my computer it estimates the new image to be around 227MB large.

If, however, I increase the dpi without upscaling the image my inches go down to 16''x24''. I keep my pixel size and my resolution increases. No extra memory required. And I can do a lot to it.

It's possible that if you're upscaling then your system is having a hard time managing the resources that PSP requires.

It is mere speculation on my part though that your computer might not be able to handle this easily. However, to answer your question, PSP on my computer can handle the convergence so I don't think the limit is in PSP but more in how PSP handles large images and how much memory you have available.
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Postby df on Wed Mar 10, 2010 2:27 am

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Postby samurai on Wed Mar 10, 2010 3:59 am

Thanks for the reply.

My system is running Windows 7 x64, 6 GB of memory, 2 TB of storage. Virtual memory is over 10 GB. The cpu is one of the 8 core chips.
I'm rescaling to get enough pixels. Don't want to rely on the scaling at the service provider. The image I'm working on has over 36 layers and I'm still adding.
I've even downloaded x3 hoping they had a 64-bit version, however, it still looks to be a 32-bit application.
I have doubts it's a resource issue, but it could be an incompatability issue.

Is no one having issues manipulating an image this big?

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Postby samurai on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:00 am

forgot to mention that psp only uses alittle over 1 GB of memory. I also have everything closed when I'm working on this document.

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Postby LeviFiction on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:32 am

Actually manipulating? Never tried. Did some quick tests creating said image size and including 36 layers. An extreme slow-down of the system occurred and resizing took close to five minutes but PSP kept chucking right along.

On a 64bit system PSP should still only be able to access 4GB (well 3.4 GB) of RAM at maximum but that leaves you with three to go.

Sadly my ignorance catches up with me. *sigh* Maybe Tim has an idea. He seems like the residential genius. Love the guy. Hope he posts.
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Postby Tim Morrison on Wed Mar 10, 2010 4:08 pm

The size limit is 32767 x 32767 pixels. The other limit is 2 GB of memory. PSP is a 32 bit application, and no matter how much memory your computer has or your operating system can use, PSP can only address 2 GB of it.
Am I right in guessing that your image has more than one layer?
Another problem would be that while the resizing is being processed, PSP has a copy of both images in memory.

Your original image is 4800 x 7200 pixels. Assuming that it is a 24bit (or 8 bits per channel) image, each pixel needs three bytes... one each for red, green and blue. That is approximately 100 MB.
The new image is 7200 x 10800 pixels and will take up about 220 MB.
While the resize is being processed PSP will be using 320 MB on top of the amount that it uses for itself... maybe around 70 MB. (Maybe more if there is a lot of stored undo data).

Each additional layer needs 4 bytes per pixel. The additional byte is for opacity. So your original image uses about 230 MB and the larger size uses 520 MB. While the resize is happening PSP will be using over 800 MB.
Another layer or two, and PSP will be exceeding the 2GB that is its maximum available memory.
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Postby samurai on Wed Mar 10, 2010 5:07 pm

Tim,

Thank you for the information. That was exactly what I was looking for.
I currently have 40 layers. I'm still expecting to add another five. The source file for all the layers are fairely large.

Do you think it would help if I resized the layers down before I imported them in?

Is there a way to turn off the "undo" to squeeze the last 70 MB out of memory?

Thank you for all your assistance.

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Postby df on Wed Mar 10, 2010 8:33 pm

File > Preferences > General Program Preferences. The first tab is the undo preferences.

Resizing the images before you import may help as long as you don't compress more than what your target image size requires.

If it's possible you could merge layers that you know that you're done with, that would help wouldn't it?
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Postby samurai on Wed Mar 10, 2010 10:40 pm

db,

Thanks for the info. I'll turn-off the undo.
I'll resize the objects before importing. I'll see if this gets me over the hump.

How do you 'merge layers'?


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Postby LeviFiction on Wed Mar 10, 2010 11:50 pm

Right click on a layer and go down to the Merge sub-menu. Or you can use the Layers menu on the main menu bar. It will always work on the currently selected layer unless otherwise specified.

You have four options

Merge Down - Merges the currently selected layer with the layer beneath it turning them into a single raster image replacing both layers with a single layer.

Merge All(flatten) - Merges all of the layers (if a layer his not visible it will still merge these layers but they won't show up in the final product) into a single raster image so it's like it just came out of your camera or something like that. Removing all layers but that one composite laye.

Merge Visible - Merges only the layers currently marked as visible. All non-visible layers remain as they were in their proper order. Replacing all visible layers with the single composite layer.

Merge Group - Can only be used on layer groups and merges the entire group into a single raster image removing the group and replacing it with a single layer.
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Postby samurai on Thu Mar 11, 2010 1:43 am

LeviFiction,

Thank you for the information.
I'll try that tonight when I get home.


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Postby samurai on Thu Mar 11, 2010 8:17 am

Merging some of the layers definitely fixed my issue. No more error message.

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