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Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

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Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby RDK45 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 8:09 am

Up until now I have just made "normal" DVD's from my photos and video (Nikon 7100, JVC, Sony, GoPro and Android/Apple phones). However, I recently tried to read up on making HD DVD projects with VS X10 Ultimate. To say the least, I'm confused! 1080p, MPG, MPEG2, MPEG4, AVCHD, etc; VS X10 Preferences, Project Properties, 4:3, 16:9, ... And the menus have too many options for someone who has no good idea what he is doing.

I make mixed photo and video projects to document vacations and family events. Is there a good tutorial (take an old guy by the hand and lead me down the path) for making high definition DVD's? Most of my video devices are recent (last 5 years) and record to digital media, except the Sony which used the mini-tapes and they needed to be converted to AVI. My units can be either NTSC or PAL.

I just made a trial using some photos and video from my Nikon 7100. I thought I had some of this figured out, but then when I created a project to use the resulting MPEG4 (1920x1080 16:9, 30 FPS) and make menus I got to the burn page and clicked on the gear icon to find that it was set to 4:3 and changing that to 16:9 warned that I might lose some content.

Would really like some help. Thanks...RDK
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby lata » Tue Jan 02, 2018 3:03 pm

Hi RDK 45

can you confirm you wish to burn a DVD and not a BlueRay disc.

If DVD then have a read here.
http://lata.me.uk/corel/all.htm
Gives details of a work flow that you can follow

But if you tell us DVD or Bluray we can fill in the gaps.
Regards Trevor
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby RDK45 » Tue Jan 02, 2018 5:17 pm

I'm trying to edit content and make an interim video file in one project, and then import the video, make the menus and burn it to DVD's in a second project. Blu-Ray's are not now in my horizon.

So the first place I get confused is setting up the settings/preferences for making the video file from my content (photos, videos - sometimes from various sources and different attributes). Then after creating the menus, etc at the burning step not sure if I should select 4:3 or 16:9 (it seems that the video file I just created is 16:9 but the burn step seemed to default to 4:3

I'll look at the link you sent. Thanks...RDK
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby lata » Tue Jan 02, 2018 6:53 pm

Hi

Maybe there is some confusion regarding HD and Standard Definition

A DVD has to use Mpeg2 video to burn the disc, that is Standard Definition. 720 x 576
Your source files can be 1080p, MPG, MPEG2, MPEG4, AVCHD, dv-avi or images creating a slide show. but ultimately converted to Mpeg2. To burn that disc.
The aspect ratio you use is probably 16:9 widescreen.

Mixing different formats can cause problems especially different frame orders, interlacing.
Mini-tapes, I assume Dv-Avi use Lower Field where HD uses Upper Field, mixing those may cause jagged edges showing as vertical lines, many of your formats may use Frame Based aka Progressive.
Creating a slide show using Images would be best using Frame based / Progressive.

Ok that’s the confusing bits covered.

Start a new project and set the project properties to DVD that is Mpeg2, edit the template to use Frame Based
Sample….

MPEG files
24 bits, 720 x 576, 25 fps
Frame-based
(DVD-PAL), 16:9
Video data rate: Variable (Max. 8000 kbps)
Audio data rate: 384 kbps
Dolby Digital Audio, 48 KHz, 2/0(L,R)

I assume being in France will use Pal 25 fps and not NTSC at 29.97?

Now add images to your project to create a slide show, if you wish also use video.
Complete the editing.
Render the project to Same as Project Settings, option is greyed out at top left of Share panel
That should create a Mpeg2 video file, we use that file to burn a DVD.

Start a new project – opens the burner module
Add the Mpeg2 created above.
Next
For your menu choose Thumbnails of Text menu
On the final window choose to Create Disc Image, that burns a file/copy of your disc.
Play with VLC Media player to check quality.
Burn to disc using Tools Burn from Disc Image.

Clear as mud
Ok Try the above using images to crate a short slide show, should be quick to complete but as a test will run through the process to burn any disc.

I have attached a VSP template using the above settings.
Attachments
RDK45 disc template.VSP.txt
rename the file to remove .txt, should open using CVSX10.5
(9 KiB) Downloaded 25 times
Regards Trevor
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby Ken Berry » Tue Jan 02, 2018 7:51 pm

I thought when I first read this thread that RDK45 was talking about an AVCHD or hybrid disc i.e. burning high definition AVCHD video in that format but to a standard definition DVD blank disc. I am still not sure that that is not what he has in mind. But of course while this is easy enough to do in Video Studio, and the quality is excellent, you still require a Blu-Ray player to play such a disc if not playing it on a computer.
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby lata » Tue Jan 02, 2018 10:13 pm

Thanks Ken you may be correct having read the post again

Workflow is the same, just render to AVCHD instead of Mpeg2, limited to approx 30 minutes per disc.
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby RDK45 » Wed Jan 03, 2018 8:09 am

Ken...I saw your comment after I posted the below reply. I'm not (yet) interested in Blu-ray technology as my family/audience is not using Blu-ray readers. I'm looking to make the best quality DVD's with my content.....RDK

Trevor....Many thanks for the detailed reply, but now I may be even more confused.

The settings you proposed are basically the same ones I've been using for years with X10 and several of its predecessors. Single exception is that I used max video data rate of 6000 for X9 and that changed for X10 to 8000.

So does this mean the DVD's I've been making were high definition all along? I was hoping that "HD" would result in clearer/crisper images when the DVD was played back.

In my last experiment the project properties were
MPEG-4 Files
24 bits, 1920 x 1080, 25 fps
Frame-based
H.264 High Profile Video: 5000 Kbps, 16:9
48000 Hz, 16 Bit, Stereo
MPEG AAC Audio: 256 Kbps


And I saved the file as a MPEG-4. Then I imported it into a new project where I made the menus, etc and burned the DVD. It seemed to work ok.

But, if I understood your comments correctly, the burn module converted the MPEG4 file and its resolution down to MPEG2? And thus, would have been identical to my saving the file originally as a MPEG2 and then making the DVD, which is what I've been doing all along

If all of this is correct, then what is HD? Is it restricted to folks using Blu-ray disks?

Thanks....RDK
Last edited by RDK45 on Wed Jan 03, 2018 6:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby lata » Wed Jan 03, 2018 10:35 am

Hi RDK

There are three disc types

DVD uses Mpeg2
Hybrid HD/DVD as Bluray but burnt to DVD
BlurayDisc (BD)
Your AVCHD are probably Bluray compliant (1920 x 1080 x 50i upper field)
(25fps interlaced is the same as 50i)

The last two require a Bluray player, the Bluray disc also requires a Bluray burner on our pc.

I must admit that after Kens comment it did appear that you wished to burn the Hybrid disc.

Standard DVD must use Mpeg2. That is the international dvd standard.

The max data rate for Mpeg2 has always been 8000kbps, although if we reduce that the new rate may become the default setting, X9 max is 8000kbps.
Controlling the MPEG2 settings can help in retaining quality.

As a guide
Using 8000kbps is High quality dvd max 70 minutes
6000 kbps is good DVD quality approx. 90 minutes
4000kbps is VHS quality.

We can render the project to Mpeg2 using the file to burn the disc or allow the burner to convert the project, burn process starts with Convert Title.

The Mpeg2 settings really depend on the original video files properties, for instance using Mini tapes DV-Avi uses Lower Field interlacing, Video Studio defaults to Upper Field, we have to change that, using the wrong interlacing will cause jagged edges when panning.
Slide Shows are best using Frame Based.

You seem to indicate using a variety of formats and that may have quality consequences.

Mpeg4
Those settings are pretty low, the data rate of 5000Kbps is low.
There is no point in converting your project to mpeg4 which will ultimately be converted to Mpeg2.

You mention wanting a clearer crisper image, I would suggest using Frame Based for your Mpeg2 settings.
Unnecessary rendering the files, example Dv-avi to Mpeg4 then back to Mpeg2 is not doing you any favours, changing the interlacing can be bad.

Oh….From Preferences there is a Render Quality option, set to Best should improve renders, whether we notice is another matter.
Regards Trevor
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby Ken Berry » Wed Jan 03, 2018 7:03 pm

RDK45 wrote:If all of this is correct, then what is HD? Is it restricted to folks using Blu-ray disks?


Your central question is 'what is HD', and the simple answer is that it is video which has a frame size higher than 720 x 480 (NTSC) or 720 x 576 (PAL). Usually, though not necessarily, HD video will also have a bitrate much higher than 10,000 kbps -- though more recent HD codecs can produce extremely high quality video with much lower bitrates...

The problem, I think, is that in your mind you are equating high quality with high definition. That is a logical correlation, but in video terms it can lead to faulty conclusions. What you need to keep in mind is the distinction between standard definition and high definition (and now even Ultra High Definition [UHD]) video. For many years, standard definition was the best high quality video we could achieve, and by international standards, the maximum frame size was 720 x 480/576 and the combined maximum bitrate (video AND audio) was 10,000 kbps -- though in practical terms some stand-alone video players, and indeed some NLE video editors, had difficulty with video bitrates above 8000 kbps. So in in effect 8000 kbps became the accepted highest bitrate which would give you the best quality standard definition video on a DVD.

Bitrate not only affects quality -- it also affects the size of a video clip. The higher the bitrate, the bigger a clip will be. So with a standard definition single layer DVD, which can hold 4.3 GB of video, if you were using video at 8000 kbps, then you could only fit about one hour of that video on the DVD (or a little more if you used a highly compressed audio format like Dolby for the audio track). To repeat, in standard definition terms, this would give you the best quality video you could hope to achieve in the standard definition world. You could still get pretty good quality -- and the human eye might not even notice the difference -- if you lowered the video bitrate to, say, 6000 kbps, and this would allow you to burn 90 minutes of video to a single layer DVD (or a bit more by using Dolby audio). Lowering the bitrate still further to 4000 kbps would allow 2 hours to be burned to a DVD, but the quality would be no better than that you would get on one of the old VHS video tapes...

And then came the era of high definition video cameras which use not only higher bitrates (which as already noted gives you better quality the higher the bitrate goes) but also increased the frame size first to 1280 x 720, then 1440 x 1080 and 1920 x 1080. And of course having a much bigger frame allowed much greater numbers of pixels to be in a frame, making the video much clearer or detailed ("higher definition") than standard definition video. And now of course we have UHD video using even larger frame sizes and much higher bitrates.

None of this is to say that standard definition video cannot be good and high quality within its own standard. It's just that it is not as good to the human eye as high definition video...

And is it "restricted to folks using Blu-Ray disks"? In a strict sense, yes. As we have already indicated, you can in fact burn HD video, using the HD AVCHD H.264 codec to what otherwise would have been a standard definition DVD blank disk. This is the hybrid or AVCHD disc. And if using the maximum bitrate for such disks of 18,000 kbps, you can only squeeze a maximum of 25 - 30 minutes of HD onto a single layer DVD. And the other limitation is that the disk will only play on a Blu-Ray player rated to play AVCHD discs (though most can).

Many of us, though, have in a sense moved beyond disks. I personally have a Blu-Ray recorder and two Blu-Ray players, but I haven't burnt a disc of any kind for more than two years. These days I render my high definition projects to a new HD video (either AVCHD or transport stream Blu-Ray compatible mpeg-2) and simply copy it to a USB stick drive or external USB hard disc. Both these types of drives have dropped enormously in price in recent years. And both can be either plugged directly into modern HDTVs or into a Blu-Ray player connected to a HDTV. More recently, another video format, HEVC which uses the H.265 codec, is also becoming popular, but it requires high end computers with CPUs no more than two or three years old, to edit and produce.

Admittedly, when distributing your video masterpieces to family and friends, not everyone will necessarily have the equipment to play Blu-Ray discs or high definition video on a USB stick or hard drive, and you will have to down-convert your video from a HD camera to standard definition DVD. For the people watching such DVDs on their older DVD players and TVs, the video will still look very high quality. It's just that, for you, it will not be the original high definition! :wink: :cry:
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby RDK45 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:32 pm

Ken and Trevor......Thanks for the help and excellent discussion of the available formats and the distinctions. I'm now MUCH more comfortable with what I'm doing (or not doing). As time and energy allows I may try experimenting with some of the "real" high definition formats.

Again, Ken, your discussion on DVD's and HD was EXCELLENT. Thanks...RDK
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby RDK45 » Fri Jan 12, 2018 8:31 am

Trevor and Ken.....Again thanks for your explanations on HD and DVD's.

There are still a couple terminologies which I'm not fully comfortable with or changing:
  • What is the difference between and when should I be using: Frame based, Upper Field and Lower Field
  • Two pass encoding vs one pass
  • and the "p" vs "I" frame rate designations

Also, I noted that my 50 minute video/photo project when rendered and then made into a DVD is only using a little over 1/2 of the available DVD space. I specified the maximum bit rates for two pass rendering, something like 9800. Regardless the images on our TV look good.

Thanks...RDK
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby lata » Fri Jan 12, 2018 4:31 pm

Hi

What you use to render your output video really depends on the original properties of your video and your target audience. Basically are you burning a disc, if yes what type or is the video for the internet, maybe playback on TV via USB

What we have not established is where your original video files came from or their properties.
The golden rule would be to retain the original properties as the output properties.
Not always possible and some changes may have to be made.

So can you tell us the properties of your video files as recorded by your camera then we can advise on better output properties.

Interlacing, which type should I use, Frame Based or Interlaced Upper or Lower
Use the same as the original video file.
DV-Avi will use Lower Field
Older Mpeg2 will use Lower Field
HD type MTS will use Upper Field, unless recorded as Progressive aka Frame Based.
It is important not to switch between Lower and Upper Field, always retain original order.

“P” vs “i” as described above
P = Progressive aka Frame Based
I = Interlaced – Upper or Lower Field
Regards Trevor
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Re: Making HD DVD's - Is there a good tutorial

Postby Ken Berry » Fri Jan 12, 2018 7:12 pm

Your other question was about two pass encoding versus one pass. This essentially relates to the degree a video can be compressed while still retaining good quality. VS "looks" through a video to work out the degree to which parts of the video can be compressed. Parts of the video which don't have much action can be compressed more, while high action scenes would normally be compressed less.

One pass encoding means just that: VS looks through the video just once, and the compression calculated during that one pass is applied, and the video duly compressed using the single pass rate. With two passes, VS may form a better impression of how much those parts of the video can be compressed while still retaining quality. Usually this results in a smaller video but one still having good quality.

The only downside about two pass encoding is that naturally enough it takes longer for VS to make up its mind and apply the compression.

Incidentally, we used to get questions here from people wondering how commercial DVDs could squeeze so much video onto them with good quality when home programs like VS couldn't achieve the same results. Apart from the fact that commercial DVDs are pressed from a master disc instead of burnt, commercial studios use among other things very expensive software which does multiple passes -- many more than just two -- to ensure the highest possible degree of compression while retaining good quality.
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